Removal of Piety and Tenacity for Endwalker

[shao32]

Tenacity is a worthless stat, the only reason WAR have to meld some it's bcs how unlucky was this tier but this time was the only exception.

What they should do is make tanks stop getting a benefic from DH and buff tenacity so is not so useless compared to CRIT and DET, they should make encounters dealt way more damage to consider TEN damage reduction have some value, right now mitigating damage is a total joke as the same healers barely heal now.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Secondaries don't do a great deal anyway. You can have 10,000 crit and still have the same crit rate as someone with 5,000 crit rate.

If you could somehow get Critical Hit as high it would actually be pretty significant. At 5000 Crit you would have a 32.1% crit rate with a 1.671 crit multiplier which would on average be a 1.215 damage multiplier. At 10000 Crit you would have a 61.5 crit rate with a 1.965 crit multiplier which would be on average a 1.593 damage multiplier on average.

[Deceptus]

Tenacity isn't in the worst spot but it's not in a great one either. Compared to Det the damage difference is small, so despite popular belief, having Tenacity on your gear won't affect your damage that much (barely 1%). However, the mitigation won't affect you much either. Mathematically it almost never amounts to enough to save healer GCD's. It's a fairly bland, mediocre stat. They could probably leave the damage component as it is and safely bump the damage reduction up, so choosing between max dps and extra-tanky was a viable decision.

One of the biggest problems with Tenacity is it's counterintuitive to tanks. Yes it reduces damage taken by a small amount but it also "Affects the amount HP restored."

The problem with this?

It only affects the heals the TANK DOES TO THEMSELVES, instead of increasing all healing done TO the tank.

Why this has never been resolved really does show how out of touch the developers are.

Determination affects healing done, Tenacity SHOULD affect healing received.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ing%20you%20do.

Believe this would not be favorable for a lot of raiding players.
Raiders tend to do what they can to squeeze in extra dps in relevant content.
There was a time when tanks use to meld Strength and they took that away from us, making DH the next best option.
Direct Hit in general helps Tanks maintain their enmity due to increased dps.
If two similar item level tanks are both generating enmity, the one with Direct Hit melded can and will steal the main aggression spot from a raid boss..

1) That Strength meta resulted in a TON of extra stress for healers when subpar tanks tried to do it because it was the cool thing to do or tanks felt pressured to do it. A Strength tank was a lot squishier than a Vitality tank.

2) DH does help with emnity overall but emnity is largely a non issue anymore at relatively equal gear levels. Your example is only relevant when you have two tanks of the same job and the exact same gear other than melds. Even in that scenario, DH and DH-Crits are RNG so you don't know what the result would be. Also, the two tanks should never be in that situation. The off tank should hold off on tank stance for a few rotations and then turn it on and if there's not a tank swap should be Shirking emnity.

[Awha]

I have the solution. Make direct hit only meld able by dps.

This is what I am afraid of happing. It would fix the issue but I would be sad to miss out on that extra bit of damage even if it is not needed. Hitting harder is always nice.

One of the biggest problems with Tenacity is it's counterintuitive to tanks. Yes it reduces damage taken by a small amount but it also "Affects the amount HP restored."

The problem with this?

It only affects the heals the TANK DOES TO THEMSELVES, instead of increasing all healing done TO the tank.

Why this has never been resolved really does show how out of touch the developers are.

Determination affects healing done, Tenacity SHOULD affect healing received.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ing%20you%20do.



1) That Strength meta resulted in a TON of extra stress for healers when subpar tanks tried to do it because it was the cool thing to do or tanks felt pressured to do it. A Strength tank was a lot squishier than a Vitality tank.

2) DH does help with emnity overall but emnity is largely a non issue anymore at relatively equal gear levels. Your example is only relevant when you have two tanks of the same job and the exact same gear other than melds. Even in that scenario, DH and DH-Crits are RNG so you don't know what the result would be. Also, the two tanks should never be in that situation. The off tank should hold off on tank stance for a few rotations and then turn it on and if there's not a tank swap should be Shirking emnity.

I was a newbie during the strength meta was it really that bad? Or was it roughly as bad as having a tank not use cooldowns? As a healer it does annoy me when tanks do not use cooldowns but I would not say it was stressful.

[elioaiko]

since I am not very "leet" I dont do a lot of savages to be honest. and generally, it seems that most of the people I randomly get grouped with are far below the level of play that you and the OP operate at since they do tend to need healing. some runs I have even heard "I hope you know how to heal" so I am guessing that you have a static group of elite min/maxxers that you run with, in which case your attitude makes a lot of sense. for the average gamer though, reality is a bit different.

just so you are aware.

No no no, this is a terribly way to look at it. In no way did that person say that DPS is what you have to do, but what else are you going to do when there's nothing to heal? Damage is very predictable and a lot of downtime. You should always be casting something and not standing there being well, useless. When there's nothing to heal which I'm sure you've seen plenty of, then you should be casting DPS spells.

And IMO, the whole traditional way of "I'm a healer, so I heal not a dps" is so problematic because even in DnD clerics also fight. Nowhere in the history of Final Fantasy or in games where healers exist is there a healer without a dps/non-healing button. Yes this also means support skills. Point being said, healers are not just healers and people need to get this mentality that being a healbot is the only aspect of healing out of their heads.

You should always try to be a decent person and help you party finish content faster but casting damage spells and not standing there spamming wasted heals/doing nothing.

I don't mean to be ugly about the subject. But you kinda of generalized and created an assumption that people wanting healers to contribute to the party in your downtime is some form of min max elitist behavior. In which is totally wrong, there's nothing wrong with people in your party wanting you to pull your weight.

DPS will always be a part of FFXIV's healer kits and if you disagree and don't like it, well play a DPS job like you said. Unless SE completely overhauls the entire combat system (not happening) to fit a strictly healing design, things will remain the same with the same downtime.

[RyuDragnier]

Can we have heals direct hit? I feel like that'd be a decent way to start.

Never. Tanks (Warrior exception due to ability that gives it) and healers do not need direct hit. It should be locked to DPS only.

Thinking on it more, Determination should be removed and its effects put into Direct Hit (which would become DPS only stat), Tenacity, and Piety. This makes Tenacity and Piety useful, and DPS stack Direct Hit all the time anyway. This also allows the devs to put a little more oomph in damage in dungeons since tanks should be able to take more damage and healers will be able to heal more and have more MP regen.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Never. Tanks (Warrior exception due to ability that gives it) and healers do not need direct hit. It should be locked to DPS only.

Thinking on it more, Determination should be removed and its effects put into Direct Hit (which would become DPS only stat), Tenacity, and Piety. This makes Tenacity and Piety useful, and DPS stack Direct Hit all the time anyway. This also allows the devs to put a little more oomph in damage in dungeons since tanks should be able to take more damage and healers will be able to heal more and have more MP regen.

Yeah, I'd agree with this.

[Dzian]

If you could somehow get Critical Hit as high it would actually be pretty significant. At 5000 Crit you would have a 32.1% crit rate with a 1.671 crit multiplier which would on average be a 1.215 damage multiplier. At 10000 Crit you would have a 61.5 crit rate with a 1.965 crit multiplier which would be on average a 1.593 damage multiplier on average.

it never really changes that much though.. you can be level 80 withcritas high as it'll possibly go. but you'll still land just as many crits as you would against say a level 50 with just a few hundred crit... we tested this once. against ARR S-Ranks. where you'd expect a level 80 player with thousands of crit to crit almost constantly....

the numbers get bigger but the outcome stays largely the same. which is why many say they feel worthless.

[Timmyftw]

DH does help with emnity overall but emnity is largely a non issue anymore at relatively equal gear levels. Your example is only relevant when you have two tanks of the same job and the exact same gear other than melds. Even in that scenario, DH and DH-Crits are RNG so you don't know what the result would be. Also, the two tanks should never be in that situation. The off tank should hold off on tank stance for a few rotations and then turn it on and if there's not a tank swap should be Shirking emnity.

Maybe in a perfect world where mistakes never happen and no one does 24 person raids.

Situations like that do happen quite often in 24 person raids, tanks constantly fighting each other for enmity is pretty common.
You can't even shirk an alliance member anyway, they have to be in the same party.

The new Nier raid for example, I've walked in with tank gear item level lower than the other tanks.
More often then not I end up taking top enmity due to the direct hit bonuses and avoidance of Tenacity.
I don't even claim to be a GOOD tank but somehow generate more enmity than people who play nothing but tank with higher item level.

[Colt47]

This Games simplicity about stats in PvE content has long ago reached a point, where it doesn't even matter what kind of materia we slot in. I mean, i am aware of simple math and that crit/determination is the way to go, but if you look beyond the mere numbers and actually pay close attention how Content is being cleared, you'll see that the damage department is way too high overall from any Job.

What i am telling here is, Content in general is being cleared way too quickly, and materia plays not the biggest role, but a significant part on this .

As for the piety stat, it does have one good thing about it, and that is when you plan on saving a almost completely wiped party all by yourself. It also comes in handy if you run Trials with only one Healer.

Are you talking from a Savage point of view or just the normal content? The reality is that materia is 100% pointless in any normal content and that is by design. The normal content is supposed to be the lowest common denominator in terms of difficulty. I don't see anyone clearing savage without materia, food, and tinctures. Those three things are the gil sink of end game battle content. If Tenacity were to become useful, they'd have to make it so that tanks can't benefit from direct hit.