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  1. #51
    Player
    Kes13a's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,842
    Character
    Etherea Stormaire
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    I guess I am just old fashioned, but my primary duty as a healer are heals, crit is nice enough but I prefer solid heals over spikey ones that crit supplies

    I do damage if people arent in need of healing.

    if I want to dps, I have a lot of other classes for that
    (5)

  2. #52
    Player
    Teno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    879
    Character
    Teno Gestalt
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kes13a View Post
    I guess I am just old fashioned, but my primary duty as a healer are heals, crit is nice enough but I prefer solid heals over spikey ones that crit supplies

    I do damage if people arent in need of healing.

    if I want to dps, I have a lot of other classes for that
    In FFXIV people are rarely in need of healing. And if they do they are either failing/learning, which means that in a few pulls you'll be left with nothing but dps as healing won't be required. And in savage if you don't pull your weight with your dps you're slowing your group, especially with all the current oGCDs. Any content below that is so easy that it's kinda irrelevant (and oh so boring for a healer).
    (11)

  3. #53
    Player
    ZedxKayn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    719
    Character
    Capybara Friend
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Timmyftw View Post
    Using MP regen the second it cools down will lead to moments where you're at full MP with the MP regen buff still up.
    Resulting in a wasted input and you'll likely unable to use the MP regen when you do need it.
    It should never happen if you're following the ABC.
    (2)
    im baby

  4. #54
    Player
    Kes13a's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,842
    Character
    Etherea Stormaire
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Teno View Post
    In FFXIV people are rarely in need of healing. And if they do they are either failing/learning, which means that in a few pulls you'll be left with nothing but dps as healing won't be required. And in savage if you don't pull your weight with your dps you're slowing your group, especially with all the current oGCDs. Any content below that is so easy that it's kinda irrelevant (and oh so boring for a healer).
    since I am not very "leet" I dont do a lot of savages to be honest. and generally, it seems that most of the people I randomly get grouped with are far below the level of play that you and the OP operate at since they do tend to need healing. some runs I have even heard "I hope you know how to heal" so I am guessing that you have a static group of elite min/maxxers that you run with, in which case your attitude makes a lot of sense. for the average gamer though, reality is a bit different.

    just so you are aware.
    (5)

  5. #55
    Player
    AnotherPerson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    1,209
    Character
    Cain Andleft
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kes13a View Post
    since I am not very "leet" I dont do a lot of savages to be honest. and generally, it seems that most of the people I randomly get grouped with are far below the level of play that you and the OP operate at since they do tend to need healing. some runs I have even heard "I hope you know how to heal" so I am guessing that you have a static group of elite min/maxxers that you run with, in which case your attitude makes a lot of sense. for the average gamer though, reality is a bit different.

    just so you are aware.
    Not exactly, people that want healers who 'know how to heal' means they know how the basic priority of their role should function.
    I guess if you really want to think about it, the healer priority is:
    Preventative Action -> Reduction Measures -> Active healing

    The players who want a healer to know how to heal expects the healer to be able to focus on Reduction Measures rather than just active healing once they enter Stormblood. A common Reduction Measure is for healers to do some DPS rather than wait for damage to come out before healing.

    People tell healers to DPS because it's more efficient as a healer to heal and DPS to help with MP upkeep - which translates to being a better healer since you can have more resources to maximize your healing potential in case things go wrong. This is especially true for pugs rather than statics because you can't trust your party members in pugs. The rationale goes as following:

    1. You can spend 400 MP for Cure I and continue using Cure 1 until the enemy dies. Let's say this enemy takes around 25 seconds for your group to kill the enemy. That means you should have around 10 casts of Cure 1, which eats up 4000 MP over that duration.

    2. Alternatively, you can spend 400 MP for Stone and alternate between Cure and Stone. Assuming the enemy dies in ~18 seconds as a result, you have spent a total of 7 casts of Stone / Cure 1, which eats up 2800 MP. In this manner, you save up 1200 MP. That 1200 MP saved can now be used for Cure II or more Medica IIs and such. Plus, factoring in the time saved, Base MP restores around 200 MP every 3 seconds in combat, so you also have a net gain of 400 MP from finishing the battle with that enemy early (which can be more depending on how much piety you have), resulting in a total of 1600 MP saved.

    This would be considered a "Reduction measure" since you're reducing your MP expenditure and increasing the party's overall survivalibility by reducing the time at which the enemy can inflict damage to the party.

    In a more broader scale (boss fights even for regular content at higher levels), the bosses will use unavoidable raidwide damage, tankbusters, and avoidable damage. Some bosses even have a soft enrage which will potentially overwhelm the party once too much time has passed (Nidhogg being a prime example with Akh Morn). If you include the number of mistakes people can make in mechanics, we would have to start spending more MP to heal through them once we go through our free healing tools if people continue to develop vulnerability stacks or end up dying, which prolongs the fight and drains the healer's MP faster. In this scenario, adding DPS will mean the boss dies faster / transition to the next phase faster, which translates into less raidwides, less tankbusters, less chances to accrue vulnerability stacks, less chances of needing to raise, and overall less incoming damage from the enemy -- which turns into less MP expensive spells spent on healing and more MP for situations where things spiral out of control. This problem is largely mitigated when people get better gear & know the fight because they have that ability to push out more DPS, take less damage, and have more potent heals, but for content when everyone is roughly at the same ilvl and new (Patch 5.5 Tower at Paradigm's Breach), this is basic healer fundamentals for succeeding or wiping a run.


    Of course, healers can just meld more piety and call it a day since they have more MP, but it still doesn't prevent people from making mistakes and still risk a potential wipe. That's why a healer who adds DPS spells when they feel everyone's HP is a comfortable level will be reducing the potential for the emergency from happening in the first place and is said to be doing well. It's just that as people get better at healing, they won't panic healing as much when player's HP starts to drop, which lets them DPS more before healing. Ultimately this just falls in line with the primary preventative action - enemies can't do damage if they're dead. This is also why White Mages use Holy, because enemies can't do damage if they're stunned, which reduces potential casts from adds and incoming damage. Take this a step further and if the healer can spam holy, they start prioritizing the preventative measure.

    Just like how a DPS improves by having a better rotation to maximize damage, healers improve by doing a balancing act between DPS and healing.

    The "leet" optimization for min/maxers is figuring out how much less healing they can get away with to increase the speed at which something dies without endangering their party (which comes from knowledge and experience + trust that their party members can dodge mechanics), as well as having every party member be contributing to the mitigation effort. Most people don't expect the average player to know this though.

    However, the idea of the preventative measure is also why people can dog farm Jade Stoa EX Unsynced without a healer - we just do enough DPS that we can melt the boss before facing enough mechanics that would have to be healed through if we trade a healer for more DPS. In this manner, we can 'prevent' a wipe from happening in the first place with sufficient DPS rather than bring a healer to 'reduce' the potential chance of wiping by healing through the mechanics.
    (9)

  6. #56
    Player
    Liam_Harper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    3,470
    Character
    Liam Harper
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Piety badly needs a rework. There is absolutely no reason it can't get the Tenacity treatment (+0.1% damage per 33 stat) at the very least. The biggest issue with Piety is that when you don't need every last bit of mana you have in a fight, up to all the Piety you have is gone to waste and did nothing. Sort of like you got a -1000 DH debuff because your group didn't play terribly. Because of this, by melding Piety you're taking a big hit in average output, for the occasional "just incase" situation. We'll still do it when we have to, but when you realize how it works it doesn't feel like a satisfying choice.

    Tenacity isn't in the worst spot but it's not in a great one either. Compared to Det the damage difference is small, so despite popular belief, having Tenacity on your gear won't affect your damage that much (barely 1%). However, the mitigation won't affect you much either. Mathematically it almost never amounts to enough to save healer GCD's. It's a fairly bland, mediocre stat. They could probably leave the damage component as it is and safely bump the damage reduction up, so choosing between max dps and extra-tanky was a viable decision.
    (2)

  7. #57
    Player
    Timmyftw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    33
    Character
    Ta'li Trinity
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    One factor I find rather telling is how people pull in expert dungeons. When I tank one, I tend to ask the healer if they are fine with me pulling the whole dungeon.
    But if I heal one, I don't really get that type of question. If I ask a tank to pull the whole dungeon they tend to ignore me.
    Again, both of these I do without piety or tenacity.
    If my partner tank or healer can't keep up, it's okay to slow down a little bit.

    Ask tanks to use tenacity and they are likely to ignore you unless it's a clear increase in damage
    (0)
    Last edited by Timmyftw; 04-18-2021 at 10:20 PM.

  8. #58
    Player
    Dzian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    2,837
    Character
    Scarlett Dzian
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 76
    Quote Originally Posted by linayar View Post
    There are just too many stats as it is.

    They just need four:

    Power (strength/dexterity/intelligence/mind/determination/attack power/attack magic potency/healing magic potency)

    Defense (vitality/defense/magic defense/tenacity/piety)

    Speed (skillspeed/spellspeed)

    Hit Rate (critical hit/direct hit rate)

    They can also remove materia melding, but if they want to keep it, only make speed and hit rate be meldable while power and defense are static on each gear.
    To be honest the way the game is designed you only need 1 stat. I-Level.

    The issue they have is they've dumbed down and simplified gear so much that they've killed any meaning of stats..

    Back in the days of old for example stats had much more diverse uses. Str not only did your damage but also your plus block strength. Dex not only worked for accuracy but how quick or how often you successfully blocked with your shield.

    Vit not only raised your hp and defence but also modified enhancing spells your protect was stronger your regen was more potent... they've dumbed down and got rid of all these things and now the only stat that actually matters is I-level..

    Secondaries don't do a great deal anyway. You can have 10,000 crit and still have the same crit rate as someone with 5,000 crit rate.

    You can be level 80 with 10,000 spell speed and still have the same cast time as someone whose level 60 with 1000 spell speed...
    (1)

  9. #59
    Player
    ZedxKayn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    719
    Character
    Capybara Friend
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Timmyftw View Post
    One factor I find rather telling is how people pull in expert dungeons. When I tank one, I tend to ask the healer if they are fine with me pulling the whole dungeon.
    But if I heal one, I don't really get that type of question. If I ask a tank to pull the whole dungeon they tend to ignore me.
    Again, both of these I do without piety or tenacity.
    If my partner tank or healer can't keep up, it's okay to slow down a little bit.

    Ask tanks to use tenacity and they are likely to ignore you unless it's a clear increase in damage
    How is this factor telling exactly? As long as the gear is of adequate iLV, the stats on them are irrelevant: what makes or breaks pulls is how knowledgeable the players are of their jobs.
    (3)
    im baby

  10. #60
    Player
    SomeRandomHuman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    778
    Character
    Tabi Fox
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    I never meld tenacity unless 1 or 2 melds pushes over a 1k marker.

    Then I like to put some piety on just so I can spam all I want without much of any worry.
    (1)

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