Removal of Piety and Tenacity for Endwalker

[Rongway]

Piety, Tenacity, and Direct Hit should just be consolidated into a single Expertise stat that is all yellow materia. Then it can have the dhit effect for DD jobs, the piety effect for healers, and a tenacity effect for tanks.

The real problem with tenacity is not just that it's ineffective. It's that it's ineffective and tanks can choose to meld direct hit instead. Consolidating the three stats into Expertise would remove the ability for anyone to meld the off-role stat at all--a step further than the current piety, which can wrongly still be melded by non-healers even though it does nothing for them. Then Tenacity can be recalibrated without having to compare its benefits against dhit.

[Nethereal]

Piety, Tenacity, and Direct Hit should just be consolidated into a single Expertise stat that is all yellow materia. Then it can have the dhit effect for DD jobs, the piety effect for healers, and a tenacity effect for tanks.

The real problem with tenacity is not just that it's ineffective. It's that it's ineffective and tanks can choose to meld direct hit instead. Consolidating the three stats into Expertise would remove the ability for anyone to meld the off-role stat at all--a step further than the current piety, which can wrongly still be melded by non-healers even though it does nothing for them. Then Tenacity can be recalibrated without having to compare its benefits against dhit.

That does sounds like a good idea and then fights could be balanced appropriately without tanks/healers melding DH it also falls in line with the removal of stat materia.

[Jeeqbit]

I don't like the idea of consolidating stats into one. It's been done in other MMOs with the Mastery stat and to me that's hand-holding on a level that isn't even needed.

[Kes13a]

I believe it's clear that no one uses piety or tenacity materia.
I am not even quite sure why those stats are in the game at this point.
All the tanks and healers I know avoid it like the plague when it's on gear.
Myself included as a healer main, I actively look for gear without piety.

myself, and the healers I know must have missed that memo.
while I HAVE tanks, I do not do much with them so I cannot comment on tenacity
but I do have healers, and I have never avoided gear with piety on it.
so, what kind of gear are you equipping as a healer that has no piety?

[elioaiko]

Can we have heals direct hit? I feel like that'd be a decent way to start.

[Enla]

I'd rather they not get rid of these completely, especially with the upcoming stat scrunch. If after the stat crunch they're still in a bad spot, rework them. Getting rid of them just because people aren't melding the materia all the time, for prog I definitely meld piety personally, doesn't really make sense to me.

[Wolwosh]

It would be nice if we had an in game stat calculator.
Like if you have 2000 crit it would tell you next to crit your critical hit rate is 20% (just an example)
I'm kinda baffled that we don't have that tbh.
If that would be the case more would know what they're actually melding.
If I was a newbie I would meld Tenacity as a Tank after reading what it does.

[elioaiko]

To add as well, piety was somewhat necessary on AST before the MP change there was a use for it to that degree. However, it felt forced like it was a way to nerf AST. In terms of MP management it felt weird that you have WHM who has a 12s of zero MP cost and a 45s 5% MP gain that is Assize.

And SCH while the worst at MP retention has a plethora of oGCDs and 45s Aetherflow.

AST only had Lightspeed which cut MP costs in half. We all know that Lightspeed is better served as a movement/weaving tool rather than saving actual MP. And now they have a natural way of regaining MP which is through drawing cards.

And some might see that AST is too powerful and that it didn't need this or that. But I'd much rather ask SE for buffs than nerfs/changes. Just look at what happened to AST and SCH after people complained that WHM was too weak even though it was still superior in terms of MP sustain. Now, AST have been altered so much that neither gameplay's of SCH and AST are fun to play. The card changes are so split in opinions that I'm fully expecting another rework in top of the removal of Nocturnal Sect.

And SCH is still clunky with a slow fairy with gameplay that went from functional to clipping central.

This is the product of being nerfed to match WHM's level. The lillies and misery were a heart start but that should have been there and desperately needed.

Getting back on topic. Piety has always been a prog choice and even unnecessary at times because a good healer has a good hold on their MP. With the stat crunch, I'm not sure what will happen, but I'd keep it for the sake of choice I suppose. It's more of a necessary evil kinda like positionals. It feel arbitrary but it's something is needed is a good way to put it.

[Timmyftw]

All in all I think you've either never done content when it was relevant before guides came out or you're more a of a green/blue dps. I understand not liking tenacity because it's essentially useless but knocking piety like that when it has its place? I don't think you're looking at the whole picture nor do you understand the relevance of prog based on how you're talking about not ressing people if you can't make a dps check.

This is a lot of assumptions based in spite. This is not the place to talk about your damage parses.
IF you've been doing the new extreme, savage, ultimate tiers when they are relevant you'll see a lot more failed dps checks. This is mostly due to people gearing up to the new item level or learning new mechanics.
A good healer can and will make up for low dps by supplementing their own dps.
Though I've been actively doing the new end game content dating back to late Heavensward and kept on it nearly every patch.
In fact most of these mechanics you'll see in game are from previous raid tiers.

Regardless of SC- if someone dies, you lose DPS, period, regardless of if you're hardcasting the raise or not. I don't see what this has to do with PIE. Also, you don't "time" the actions that give MP back, you use them on cooldown.

Using MP regen the second it cools down will lead to moments where you're at full MP with the MP regen buff still up.
Resulting in a wasted input and you'll likely unable to use the MP regen when you do need it.

Piety, Tenacity, and Direct Hit should just be consolidated into a single Expertise stat that is all yellow materia. Then it can have the dhit effect for DD jobs, the piety effect for healers, and a tenacity effect for tanks.

Believe this would not be favorable for a lot of raiding players.
Raiders tend to do what they can to squeeze in extra dps in relevant content.
There was a time when tanks use to meld Strength and they took that away from us, making DH the next best option.
Direct Hit in general helps Tanks maintain their enmity due to increased dps.
If two similar item level tanks are both generating enmity, the one with Direct Hit melded can and will steal the main aggression spot from a raid boss.

so, what kind of gear are you equipping as a healer that has no piety?

Ariyala's ffxiv toolbox has a list of gear for you to look through, along with a handy best in slot solver. Keep in mind Ariyala's does tend to take a few days to update after a major patch.

A good rule of thumb is that the 8 person raid gear is usually just straight up better in terms of stats. (Not always the case with some slots)

Can we have heals direct hit? I feel like that'd be a decent way to start.

Now I like this suggestion, would love to see heals hit critical with direct hit.
Which would allow for increased heals in general similar to how it leads to increased dps.

It would be nice if we had an in game stat calculator.
Like if you have 2000 crit it would tell you next to crit your critical hit rate is 20% (just an example)
If that would be the case more would know what they're actually melding.
If I was a newbie I would meld Tenacity as a Tank after reading what it does.

I also agree with this, similar to how games like Diablo 3 have an extra window that shows background stats like critical chance.

[Rongway]

Piety, Tenacity, and Direct Hit should just be consolidated into a single Expertise stat that is all yellow materia. Then it can have the dhit effect for DD jobs, the piety effect for healers, and a tenacity effect for tanks.

The real problem with tenacity is not just that it's ineffective. It's that it's ineffective and tanks can choose to meld direct hit instead. Consolidating the three stats into Expertise would remove the ability for anyone to meld the off-role stat at all--a step further than the current piety, which can wrongly still be melded by non-healers even though it does nothing for them. Then Tenacity can be recalibrated without having to compare its benefits against dhit.

[1]Believe this would not be favorable for a lot of raiding players.
Raiders tend do what they can to squeeze in extra dps in relevant content.
There was a time when tanks use to meld Strength and they took that away from us, making DH the next best option.


[2]Direct Hit in general helps Tanks maintain their enmity due to increased dps.
If two similar item level tanks are both generating enmity, the one with Direct Hit melded can and will steal the main aggression spot from a raid boss.

What you're describing are non-issues.

1a) This is only problematic because tanks are still allowed to meld dhit. If tanks were not allowed to meld dhit, then Tenacity would be evaluated based on its own merit rather than on its deficiency compared to dhit, and there would be no problem, or

1b) it would be evaluated based on its deficiency compared to determination, and they would choose whichever increased their DPS more, and there would still be no problem related to losing DPS from being forced to meld tenacity over dhit


2a) No tank needs to do more damage to maintain aggro. Tank stance has a 10x enmity multiplier and can be freely turned on or off, and there is never a damage gap so wide that a DD will ever do ten times as much damage and rip aggro off a tank who is doing minimally competent DPS, nor is it likely they would catch up while a competent tank is self-throttling their enmity gain by periodically dropping tank stance.

"But a good DD can still catch up to a bad tank if they turn off their stance!" We're not talking about bad tanks. If we're discussing tenacity vs dhit, we're 100% discussing competent, end-game players because that's the only population in which it matters that they eke out the extra damage from taking dhit over tenacity.

2b) If dhit were not meldable, then tanks would choose between tenacity and determination, whichever one increased their DPS more, so still no problem.


Make dhit a DD only stat.