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  1. #1
    Player
    Rymi64's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Posts
    299
    Character
    Ren Crowe
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Jirah View Post
    a job with no care for positionals, cast bars, or even divergent rotations should have somthing anything to grant that extra step of mastery if MCH stays the exact same in EW it would be a travesty for a job so vastly incomplete to not get anything while the other jobs get new tools and what not or worse .....get even more simpler since pressing a button 5 times in a row is to alienating and just remove it to make it accessible by reducing it to one. Also what does multiple jobs have anything to do with MCH being toothless
    They should bring back it's cast times then. Many loved gun mage mch from HW and it looked super fun to play. I honestly think they should also bring back bow mage as well. I adored bow mage from HW and wouldn't mind its return. I don't move around as much as a range phy anyways so I wouldn't mind. Though that's just my opinion
    (1)

  2. #2
    Player
    CKNovel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    1,915
    Character
    Cassia Kaedhan
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Rymi64 View Post
    They should bring back it's cast times then. Many loved gun mage mch from HW and it looked super fun to play. I honestly think they should also bring back bow mage as well. I adored bow mage from HW and wouldn't mind its return. I don't move around as much as a range phy anyways so I wouldn't mind. Though that's just my opinion
    The problem with Bowmage and Gunmage, BRD was not designed with casts in mind, MCH was. BRD ended up not giving a good feeling for older BRD players.
    Then they removed casts and the problem did a 180. Since MCH was designed with Casts, many cooldown were now weird or kinda useless/incomplete such as rapidfire or ammos.

    With all the instant casts BLM, SMN and RDM now have, ranged with casts could make a comeback under a new form. Not all GCDs being casts but why not only straight shot for BRD. Still, i don't know enough of BRD rotation to understand how it would impact the rotation overall.
    I believe a 1.5 seconds cast could work to keep the "Mobility" aspect. A 2.5s cast would make MCH the least mobile job, even less mobile than BLM outside of leylines.

    I've taken a look at the JP side and it looks like they also regret the removal of casts, the main argument being that there is now a lack of ingenuity. Like how Melees ask themselves "How can I safely go to melee range and do my positionnal" or casters "how can I get an additionnal cast there".
    The ranged role clearly needs attention, not as much as SMN and the healers, but the problem can't be left ignored for another 2 years, especially for a whole role.
    (1)

  3. #3
    Player
    Claire_Pendragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    1,619
    Character
    Claire Pendragon
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    RDMs needs 2 uses of its gapcloser. Then RDM would be perfect.

    Edit: added the bottom, since i mistakenly double posted.
    Quote Originally Posted by CKNovel View Post
    The problem with Bowmage and Gunmage, BRD was not designed with casts in mind, MCH was. BRD ended up not giving a good feeling for older BRD players.
    Then they removed casts and the problem did a 180. Since MCH was designed with Casts, many cooldown were now weird or kinda useless/incomplete such as rapidfire or ammos.

    With all the instant casts BLM, SMN and RDM now have, ranged with casts could make a comeback under a new form. Not all GCDs being casts but why not only straight shot for BRD. Still, i don't know enough of BRD rotation to understand how it would impact the rotation overall.
    I believe a 1.5 seconds cast could work to keep the "Mobility" aspect. A 2.5s cast would make MCH the least mobile job, even less mobile than BLM outside of leylines.

    I've taken a look at the JP side and it looks like they also regret the removal of casts, the main argument being that there is now a lack of ingenuity. Like how Melees ask themselves "How can I safely go to melee range and do my positionnal" or casters "how can I get an additionnal cast there".
    The ranged role clearly needs attention, not as much as SMN and the healers, but the problem can't be left ignored for another 2 years, especially for a whole role.
    I never understood why they didnt give them short cast bars. 0.5s and 1s casts exist, so why didnt BRD/MCH have them? and as you put it, 1.5 works as well. (IMO it should be dependent on which skill you use, and offer at LEAST 1 skill thats instant)
    (0)
    CLAIRE PENDRAGON

  4. #4
    Player
    Jirah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    1,867
    Character
    Jira Dal'riata
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Rymi64 View Post
    They should bring back it's cast times then. Many loved gun mage mch from HW and it looked super fun to play. I honestly think they should also bring back bow mage as well. I adored bow mage from HW and wouldn't mind its return. I don't move around as much as a range phy anyways so I wouldn't mind. Though that's just my opinion
    I dont think MCH would improve at all if it got cast times it would require a rework to better base its kit around it. but I cant speak on that without talking about ranged as a whole which have alot of issues with its homogenized state and identity crisis.
    (1)
    “Theirs really not much you can change with the MCH”
    -Live letter 66, 9/17/21

    Where is the ambition?

  5. #5
    Player
    CKNovel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    1,915
    Character
    Cassia Kaedhan
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Jirah View Post
    I dont think MCH would improve at all if it got cast times it would require a rework to better base its kit around it. but I cant speak on that without talking about ranged as a whole which have alot of issues with its homogenized state and identity crisis.
    The current ranged problem is that they're seen as "Casters without casts" or "Melees without melee ranged&positionnals", which falls again in the lack of ingenuity.
    During SB, it was a mana resources battery with powerfull mitigation. If a Melee was KO'd, they needed TP. But the battery is not a part of the game anymore and mitigation has been nerfed way, waaay too much.

    There was multiple suggestions to bring a bit more depth to all the rangeds such as different potencies based on range, it was debated that the best choice was closer = higher potencies to not conflict with healers. I have no idea which idea is better and if SQEX actually takes in account the community feedback.
    They don't know what to do with BRD and missed multiple times an opportunity to buff the job, MCH recently had a rework that kept the weird Flamethrower and the latency issues. And they're happy with DNC, an unbalanced job in my opinion.

    MCH was shining on gameplay and performance only in a third of HW. It was a mess during SB and during ShB, the rework was welcomed at first until most players realized it was an empty job. For the very first time, BRD is not the "best ranged" and lost its throne in the hardest way. I don't have huge expectations when it comes to the rangeds.
    (1)

  6. #6
    Player
    LeonKeyh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    655
    Character
    Leon Keyh
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by CKNovel View Post
    There was multiple suggestions to bring a bit more depth to all the rangeds such as different potencies based on range, it was debated that the best choice was closer = higher potencies to not conflict with healers. I have no idea which idea is better and if SQEX actually takes in account the community feedback.
    They don't know what to do with BRD and missed multiple times an opportunity to buff the job, MCH recently had a rework that kept the weird Flamethrower and the latency issues. And they're happy with DNC, an unbalanced job in my opinion.
    After playing the ranged physicals and reading a bunch of people complaining about them being unfulfilling (and thinking the same myself), I had thought about different (unique) ways of introducing mechanisms regarding movement for ranged physical.

    Melee have positionals and casters have cast bars, I had thought of range sections for ranged physical, similar to positionals, but some abilities did more damage at 0-5y, some more at 15+y, but you would need some new UI element that shows distance (or at least the different sections being used, e.g. 5y, 10y, 15y). On top of that, I think it would really be tough to balance high end encounters around something like that. It would definitely be cool though.

    For MCH, I heard that it used to have ammo, but never really saw how that worked (I assume that it was just like any other Build Resources->Use Resources job). I think it would be cool to have a "reload" mechanism; Have MCH have a ton of different weaponskills (or the 1,2,3 combo with multiple charges and a couple of "bigger" attacks) that have a really long cooldown (e.g. 5 minutes) and another ability called "Reload" which has a shorter cooldown (e.g. 10s) and uses a GCD. Certain abilities (e.g. Drill/Anchor) would maintain their cooldown and Reload wouldn't affect those. Then maybe have some abilities do more damage the more abilities are on cooldown. So you sit there and attack and have a strategy on when you reload. Maybe you reload early to line up with buffs, but otherwise reloading uses up a GCD, so you want to make sure you use as many abilities as possible. Have an OGCD with a 5m cooldown that is "Quick Reload". Just seems like it would be a fun aesthetic.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    Raikai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    3,560
    Character
    Arlo Nine-tails
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by LeonKeyh View Post
    For MCH, I heard that it used to have ammo, but never really saw how that worked (I assume that it was just like any other Build Resources->Use Resources job). I think it would be cool to have a "reload" mechanism; Have MCH have a ton of different weaponskills (or the 1,2,3 combo with multiple charges and a couple of "bigger" attacks) that have a really long cooldown (e.g. 5 minutes) and another ability called "Reload" which has a shorter cooldown (e.g. 10s) and uses a GCD. Certain abilities (e.g. Drill/Anchor) would maintain their cooldown and Reload wouldn't affect those. Then maybe have some abilities do more damage the more abilities are on cooldown. So you sit there and attack and have a strategy on when you reload. Maybe you reload early to line up with buffs, but otherwise reloading uses up a GCD, so you want to make sure you use as many abilities as possible. Have an OGCD with a 5m cooldown that is "Quick Reload". Just seems like it would be a fun aesthetic.
    Ammo back in the day used to boost the damage of the next weaponskill + give 100% chance for the regular combo to proc its next stage (before, each weaponskill had like 50% chance of proc the next stage). So you basically used it to have guaranteed combo continuity, but the thing is that it was very unfulfilling, but since it had quite a big downtime, you were forced to cope with your regular RNG clunky 1-2-3 combo for a good chunk of the fight (also you had to save ammo for the Wildfire). Your regular combo could sometimes get you to 1-1-1-1 depending on your luck.

    I think ammo could be a nice element to re-introduce, but not like its original version. Maybe yeah, something as enhancing bigger attacks... Or even if the Gauss/Ricochet charges were actually the ammo count.
    (2)
    Last edited by Raikai; 04-06-2021 at 11:20 PM.

  8. #8
    Player
    CKNovel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    1,915
    Character
    Cassia Kaedhan
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Procs, rapidfire and ammos also made "casts" instant back in HW.
    Only Split shot (1), Lead shot (A dot) Hot Shot and Spread/Grenade shot were casts but as mentionned above, you could end up spamming 1 if you were unlucky.

    In short, there wasn't much casts anyway.
    Quick Reload was on 15s, Reload on 60s, rapid fire&Wildfire on a weird 90s. And if you needed to move, you could remove the Gauss Barrel or the Song to freely attack.
    (1)