DPS who pull mobs

[Artemiz]

I was recently sitting in a casual FC call with someone I didn't know very well who was trying to get away with running a dungeon in glamour gear. The tank in their DF group noticed and asked flatly in chat if they had any better gear, to which the person flipped, raged in call, unequipped the rest of their gear and started griefing the dungeon on purpose and evaded getting kicked until the tank left and ate a penalty.

Thats obviously ridiculous and the person should have been kicked, its far from common though.

Yeah my social skills are not up the standard of someone else in my age rage. Even so I think your disagreement stems from the notion that you think being removed from a group is inherently a bad thing. That is the problem many people have they take being removed as a personal attack instead of just seeing it as whelp guess I just did not mesh with those players better luck next time.

Get salty all you want mate, its not me having these problems.

And yes, I think kicking people for not performing to your ideal of a dungeon run and bending to your will is petty and dickish. This isn't the above example of clearly undergeared players or poor behaviour, it's a rather minor disagreement about pull size. In your own words its not even about time investment, you want fun your way or the highway. You enter a random dungeon with a random group of players and the insist everything caters to your taste. The only thing that's confusing here is your surprised that you are running into problems with that attitude.

[Awha]

Thats obviously ridiculous and the person should have been kicked, its far from common though.



Get salty all you want mate, its not me having these problems.

And yes, I think kicking people for not performing to your ideal of a dungeon run and bending to your will is petty and dickish. This isn't the above example of clearly undergeared players or poor behaviour, it's a rather minor disagreement about pull size. In your own words its not even about time investment, you want fun your way or the highway. You enter a random dungeon with a random group of players and the insist everything caters to your taste. The only thing that's confusing here is your surprised that you are running into problems with that attitude.

Far from salty just having an open discussion with ya. Though not sure if the salty comment was sarcasm or not.

Funny thing I only run into people that are against it on the forums in game as I said most groups just remove the player being slow. I am not bending the group to my will as I said either it passes or it does not. If it does not have I choice to make leave or conform though by in large most groups agree and we go on with our day.

Getting removed is not a personal attack it is just a choice that a group makes if they do not want to play with someone. Not sure how that is petty not like I can remove someone with just my vote.

In the end it is a weird dynamic if the vote passes doesn't that mean the group was in favor? So what is the problem follow your mindset the group spoke and just used the vote system instead of words. If the group wanted to go fast but just went along with the pace of the person being slow doesn't that mean the person being slow imposed their will on the rest of the group. Though in there case it is okay because it is a roulette yet the same is not true for the other side? It is a roulette you may get a group that wants to go fast or you may get one that wants to go slow. Why does the one that wants to go slow get the benefit of the doubt but the one that wants to go quick is told they should just go at the slower pace.

No need to cater to the weakest link when you can just remove said link.

I also greatly enjoy these kind of discussions because it allows me to try and gain a better understand on how others view something. It is fun for me so once again if I am coming off as salty or annoyed not my intent I find this conversation enlightening. Cause generally the people I play with think the same. Sometimes they kick some then ask for someone to fill in over discord. That is just how we play. So seeing how others handle situations is cool.

[Artemiz]

Far from salty just having an open discussion with ya. Though not sure if the salty comment was sarcasm or not.

Funny thing I only run into people that are against it on the forums in game as I said most groups just remove the player being slow. I am not bending the group to my will as I said either it passes or it does not. If it does not have I choice to make leave or conform though by in large most groups agree and we go on with our day.

Getting removed is not a personal attack it is just a choice that a group makes if they do not want to play with someone. Not sure how that is petty not like I can remove someone with just my vote.

In the end it is a weird dynamic if the vote passes doesn't that mean the group was in favor? So what is the problem follow your mindset the group spoke and just used the vote system instead of words. If the group wanted to go fast but just went along with the pace of the person being slow doesn't that mean the person being slow imposed their will on the rest of the group. Though in there case it is okay because it is a roulette yet the same is not true for the other side? It is a roulette you may get a group that wants to go fast or you may get one that wants to go slow. Why does the one that wants to go slow get the benefit of the doubt but the one that wants to go quick is told they should just go at the slower pace.

No need to cater to the weakest link when you can just remove said link.

I also greatly enjoy these kind of discussions because it allows me to try and gain a better understand on how others view something. It is fun for me so once again if I am coming off as salty or annoyed not my intent I find this conversation enlightening. Cause generally the people I play with think the same. Sometimes they kick some then ask for someone to fill in over discord. That is just how we play. So seeing how others handle situations is cool.

You seem to have a very high standard for DF groups, in another thread you said you left because the healer didn't use sprint between pulls. If that's your standard then cool but you'd probably find PF a better tool than DF. You do impose those standards on others though, by firstly pulling for the tank then kicking them ASAP. Im not a fan of that approach personally and while I obviously have standards I relax them considerably in DF content as random groups are random. If the party can clear the content and nobody is taking the piss then I take what I get.

I can honestly say I've never been kicked from a duty but it doesn't take a master in psychology to imagine for some people it would be quite upsetting or at least damage their confidence, especially on a job like tank where confidence is the greatest barrier to many people trying it. I don't really see the need to do that to someone if the biggest complaint you have is their pull size is quite as much fun as you want it to be.

[Claire_Pendragon]

Ironically, I actually do this on SAM lol. Its just my tank instincts kicking in, even if im on a DPS.

[Nestama]

Myeah, toss on an Arm's Length and stay nearby (if I'm tanking). A single AoE will grab everything off the DPS and two will cement the hate on me (they also kinda made this easier for me as now the mobs are closely stacked together and not spread out).
I genuinely do not understand why some tanks would just willingly let a DPS and/or healer KO because they pulled (it's a toxic attitude to have and definitely deserves a kick for griefing). The tanks primary job is holding hate and using defensive CD's, not holding the party hostage and being a party dictator (if they want to be a team leader, then they should act like one).

[NanaWiloh]

Myeah, toss on an Arm's Length and stay nearby (if I'm tanking). A single AoE will grab everything off the DPS and two will cement the hate on me (they also kinda made this easier for me as now the mobs are closely stacked together and not spread out).
I genuinely do not understand why some tanks would just willingly let a DPS and/or healer KO because they pulled (it's a toxic attitude to have and definitely deserves a kick for griefing). The tanks primary job is holding hate and using defensive CD's, not holding the party hostage and being a party dictator (if they want to be a team leader, then they should act like one).

Dps also deserve to be KICKED turn about is fair play. If you are dps then you are not the tank and it is not your job to take damage intended for the tank.

[ZedxKayn]

Dps also deserve to be KICKED turn about is fair play. If you are dps then you are not the tank and it is not your job to take damage intended for the tank.

Damage intended for the tank- what?

Damage is intended for everyone, it's intended to kill... And the tank's job is to make sure the damage is redirected to them because they have the health to survive it longer and the tools to mitigate...
Honestly? As long as they don't die, DPS and healer hp during pulls might as well be some sort of shield for the tank as well.

If the healer or a DPS take damage during a pull and survive it, it means it's going to be less damage on the tank that the healer will have to do and therefore more time to deal damage. More time to deal damage means less to heal because the mobs will be alive to hurt the tank for a shorter time, and that also means faster pulls and therefore a faster duty. And if on top of that the DPS use Arm's Length? More mitigation, that's just great.

[NanaWiloh]

Damage intended for the tank- what?

Damage is intended for everyone, it's intended to kill... And the tank's job is to make sure the damage is redirected to them because they have the health to survive it longer and the tools to mitigate...
Honestly? As long as they don't die, DPS and healer hp during pulls might as well be some sort of shield for the tank as well.

If the healer or a DPS take damage during a pull and survive it, it means it's going to be less damage on the tank that the healer will have to do and therefore more time to deal damage. More time to deal damage means less to heal because the mobs will be alive to hurt the tank for a shorter time, and that also means faster pulls and therefore a faster duty. And if on top of that the DPS use Arm's Length? More mitigation, that's just great.

if a dps deciding to job the tanks job is ok, then its ok if I decide to dps and not heal them. Turn about is fair play..

[ZedxKayn]

if a dps deciding to job the tanks job is ok, then its ok if I decide to dps and not heal them. Turn about is fair play..

For the nth time, the tank's job is not necessarily to PULL first, they are NOT the party's leader and they do NOT set the pace of a run alone. Their job is to GRAB and HOLD the aggro.

Then suppose that indeed, it is the tank's job to pull, it doesn't take away from their duty as a tank to get the aggro. What you are advocating for is griefing: a DPS starting to dish damage out sooner so long as they are conscious about it and the tank's mind doesn't shatter at the thought of it, it will not harm the run at all, quite the opposite because of what I mentioned in my previous post, whereas a tank refusing to tank or a healer refusing to heal will slow the run down because they are explicitly refusing to do the critical job they queued for.

[Jijifli]

if a dps deciding to job the tanks job is ok, then its ok if I decide to dps and not heal them. Turn about is fair play..

Your example would fit closer if you stopped healing because you saw a vercure on the RDM, as the dps going ahead of the tank doesn't conflict with you doing what you signed up for, correct?

So now you're just being petty to others for petty's sake. Great mindset to have.