The 3-Strikes Policy - Is it really a good thing?

[Krotoan]

Sure in the current system people are likely to repeat the mistakes of the past, because the reality is we do not allow them to really move past their mistakes. Personally I think it would be hard to move past something if you are always reminded of it. Having the capacity to do something does not mean they will do it, and I do not think we should base our stance around that assumption. Sure we have people that are serial offenders, but I do not think we should threat everyone as such.

Sure if we go based off the current data where we have people that go to prison then are released to do the same action it does not look good. Though from my view I say we should look why did they repeat the action, I feel a lot of has to deal with the fact that the system often puts them back in the same desperate situation that caused them to lead to their first offense. The person may be willing to change, but simply unable to advance due to the nature of the fact they their desire of change does not reflect their options to change. Get out of prison work a dead end job since getting employment is rough, struggling to make ends meat because you are barely making a livable wage forced to work a second job which leads etc . . . all these stressors I feel cause a person to feel that same sense of hopelessness that may have lead to lapse in judgement in the first place. Do not get me wrong I do think some people in this world are just broken so to speak, but I do not think that is the case for everyone and I do feel people if given the proper chance can and will learn from their mistakes. It is just about giving the person the opportunity after they served their punishment.

In end though when it comes to my own forgiveness if someone wants to take advantage of my kindness and view it is weakness cool. That is on them, though please do not mistake my view as I will let someone walk all over me repeatedly. I just feel the current system does not do much to allow the person the the proper means to learn from their own actions thus they are easily repeatable. Just like I do not agree with warnings since people view them as a one time pass. I think we should not have warnings at all even in our legal system.

In end I think it is unfair, unreasonable, and navie to expect a different outcome if you literary put the person in the same exact situation they were in prior to the offense

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You are taking the prison system metaphor and hypothetical too far. This is a game. Nobody knows your past infractions in game. This is technically a "perfect" system in which nobody but the judges know your history and it only comes into question when you relapse. Your re-integration into the system has no lingering or visible marks that others you interact with in anything relevant to the game can see or access.

It would only be a worry for those who have "heavy" strikes on their record, as it should be. Do not recommit. Do not lapse. REMEMBER that this is your last chance.

Apologies, I must have missed it. Then yes, I agree.

If I find I don't like somebody and call them a "w******r" out of frustration is a lot more forgivable than say, stalking and harassing them to make them feel uncomfortable or causing them distress. The latter of which I have seen somebody do...and they should be treated much more seriously than the person who called them a bad name. Sure, both are in the wrong to do it, one is a lot worse than the other. Sure the stalkery person may learn their lesson, but I expect they will want to keep that strike if they slip back into similar sort of behaviour and act on it. They can't even be sure you've stopped this behaviour because it might have just gone unreported.

Thank you for going back. I know there's a lot to sift through as I can be verbose. As you say.. exactly as I feel, infractions should have weight and that weight should determine both punishment and permanence.

[TurtlesAWD]

It would only be a worry for those who have "heavy" strikes on their record, as it should be. Do not recommit. Do not lapse. REMEMBER that this is your last chance.

You're not given information on what the report was for though so unless you've said approximately 1 thing in game ever, good luck figuring out what you're not supposed to do. Changes of behavior require specifics and consistency. Otherwise you just teach people how to be toxic the "right" way.

[Nothv13]

You're not given information on what the report was for though so unless you've said approximately 1 thing in game ever, good luck figuring out what you're not supposed to do. Changes of behavior require specifics and consistency. Otherwise you just teach people how to be toxic the "right" way.

This. I see so many on the forums saying that you shouldn't have to be told what you did, you should just know, and I cannot think of a single place that actually takes correcting bad behaviors seriously that only tells yo the rule you broke and not the actions that broke it (almost always with some sort of evidence also presented)

[Awha]

You are taking the prison system metaphor and hypothetical too far. This is a game. Nobody knows your past infractions in game. This is technically a "perfect" system in which nobody but the judges know your history and it only comes into question when you relapse. Your re-integration into the system has no lingering or visible marks that others you interact with in anything relevant to the game can see or access.

It would only be a worry for those who have "heavy" strikes on their record, as it should be. Do not recommit. Do not lapse. REMEMBER that this is your last chance.



Thank you for going back. I know there's a lot to sift through as I can be verbose. As you say.. exactly as I feel, infractions should have weight and that weight should determine both punishment and permanence.

This is why I tend to not bring up IRL situations, but since you brought it up I went with it. That being said sure it is a game why make the choice between certain actions? That is part of the problem we do not know, the rules are vague and what is viewed as harassment to one may not be the same to another. That does not excuse the action and they should be punished but if said person learned that they cannot making comments that they did to everyone maybe it common amongst their group of friends who knows the reason why. That said if they learned from their mistakes and have not done anything for x amount of time why not as a sign of good will get rid of their strikes. In the end nothing really changes cause. Say if you have strikes on your account and do nothing wrong ever again it more or less functions as not having any strikes on your account in the first place. Unless for some reason you think people will math our their negative actions and say I can do one bad thing every 4 years or something cause that is when my strikes reset? I do not think most people will have that kind for foresight for harassment or cheating in a video game.

Though this is all why I said we should just get rid of the warning system, do something wrong get a 3 day suspension right off the bat, but make sure to clearly state what they did wrong. If this leads to witch hunting instead of self reflection then take harsher action at that point.

[Krotoan]

You're not given information on what the report was for though so unless you've said approximately 1 thing in game ever, good luck figuring out what you're not supposed to do. Changes of behavior require specifics and consistency. Otherwise you just teach people how to be toxic the "right" way.

You're not given specific information, but as far as I can tell from others reports (since I've not been even warned in the 10+ years I have been playing this game) , they at least give you the category you are being actioned upon. So while it IS difficult to stick down exactly what you said and did, if you know you have several infractions for say harassment you can probably surmise that you should maybe calm your interactions with others.

Given a system where minor infractions such as swearing or other "bad manners" are forgiven after a time, you can maybe breathe a little easier about what you say if there's a few months/years since your last action as you won't need to worry your next accidental swear/quit/offense will be your last.

Also while the punishments are vague as to the specifics.. I'm relatively sure if you (as in players, not specifically you) just payed a little more attention to the letters you're smashing out before hitting enter, you can probably figure out what you shouldn't be typing. Many MANY players seem to avoid this "inevitable" accruing of strikes against them for going on a decade now while maintaining reasonable levels of communication and socializing.

Unless for some reason you think people will math our their negative actions and say I can do one bad thing every 4 years or something cause that is when my strikes reset? I do not think most people will have that kind for foresight for harassment or cheating in a video game.
.

This is exactly what people will do. This is why game companies as a whole do not advertise or detail how their punishment systems or anticheats work. People inevitably game the system. "Oh hey, my strikes reset, I can now say the most horrible things I want to and harass players again until I get another action.". This is what trolls ARE. They live to cause as much strife as possible.

[Awha]

You're not given specific information, but as far as I can tell from others reports (since I've not been even warned in the 10+ years I have been playing this game) , they at least give you the category you are being actioned upon. So while it IS difficult to stick down exactly what you said and did, if you know you have several infractions for say harassment you can probably surmise that you should maybe calm your interactions with others.

Given a system where minor infractions such as swearing or other "bad manners" are forgiven after a time, you can maybe breathe a little easier about what you say if there's a few months/years since your last action as you won't need to worry your next accidental swear/quit/offense will be your last.

Also while the punishments are vague as to the specifics.. I'm relatively sure if you (as in players, not specifically you) just payed a little more attention to the letters you're smashing out before hitting enter, you can probably figure out what you shouldn't be typing. Many MANY players seem to avoid this "inevitable" accruing of strikes against them for going on a decade now while maintaining reasonable levels of communication and socializing.




This is exactly what people will do. This is why game companies as a whole do not advertise or detail how their punishment systems or anticheats work. People inevitably game the system. "Oh hey, my strikes reset, I can now say the most horrible things I want to and harass players again until I get another action.". This is what trolls ARE. They live to cause as much strife as possible.

Sure some will but I highly doubt it would be a common occurrence especially if they remove the warning system and issue a suspension for the action. Sure if they map it out they will eat a 3 day suspension after their one little bout of trolling. Seems silly to base everything off of the actions of a small group of people.

[TurtlesAWD]

You're not given specific information, but as far as I can tell from others reports (since I've not been even warned in the 10+ years I have been playing this game) , they at least give you the category you are being actioned upon. So while it IS difficult to stick down exactly what you said and did, if you know you have several infractions for say harassment you can probably surmise that you should maybe calm your interactions with others.

Given a system where minor infractions such as swearing or other "bad manners" are forgiven after a time, you can maybe breathe a little easier about what you say if there's a few months/years since your last action as you won't need to worry your next accidental swear/quit/offense will be your last.

Also while the punishments are vague as to the specifics.. I'm relatively sure if you (as in players, not specifically you) just payed a little more attention to the letters you're smashing out before hitting enter, you can probably figure out what you shouldn't be typing. Many MANY players seem to avoid this "inevitable" accruing of strikes against them for going on a decade now while maintaining reasonable levels of communication and socializing.




This is exactly what people will do. This is why game companies as a whole do not advertise or detail how their punishment systems or anticheats work. People inevitably game the system. "Oh hey, my strikes reset, I can now say the most horrible things I want to and harass players again until I get another action.". This is what trolls ARE. They live to cause as much strife as possible.

so I think this still assumes uniform, non-arbitrary enforcement which I think is generally under doubt, before now but certainly now more than ever, and I think this doesn't account for trolling and being trolled being punished in the same way, which there's every reason to think is the case.


"just stay calm 4head" isn't really a strategy I think represents a lot of contemplation about human interaction or community management

[Krotoan]

so I think this still assumes uniform, non-arbitrary enforcement which I think is generally under doubt, before now but certainly now more than ever, and I think this doesn't account for trolling and being trolled being punished in the same way, which there's every reason to think is the case.


"just stay calm 4head" isn't really a strategy I think represents a lot of contemplation about human interaction or community management

Considering that only this week we've had some misinformed GM start tagging people willy nilly for what they THOUGHT were infractions? First I've seen of it in my relatively long gameplay.
If you consider "think before you hit enter" to be "just stay calm", I wonder what kind of language you'd use in a social setting around people you don't know. Even then talking is hard to stop sometimes but.. typing? I've got a decent WPM but I ain't cranking out things before running them past my actual brain.

[Jijifli]

You're not given specific information, but as far as I can tell from others reports (since I've not been even warned in the 10+ years I have been playing this game) , they at least give you the category you are being actioned upon. So while it IS difficult to stick down exactly what you said and did, if you know you have several infractions for say harassment you can probably surmise that you should maybe calm your interactions with others.

Given a system where minor infractions such as swearing or other "bad manners" are forgiven after a time, you can maybe breathe a little easier about what you say if there's a few months/years since your last action as you won't need to worry your next accidental swear/quit/offense will be your last.

Also while the punishments are vague as to the specifics.. I'm relatively sure if you (as in players, not specifically you) just payed a little more attention to the letters you're smashing out before hitting enter, you can probably figure out what you shouldn't be typing. Many MANY players seem to avoid this "inevitable" accruing of strikes against them for going on a decade now while maintaining reasonable levels of communication and socializing.

Casual reminder I did almost get a strike because someone spammed me with the C word.

Yes, I was the one getting spammed, I never even spoke to the guy, and I almost got striked for my own ticket. But you're right let me just watch my lang-- Oh wait.

[Krotoan]

Casual reminder I did almost get a strike because someone spammed me with the C word.

Yes, I was the one getting spammed, I never even spoke to the guy, and I almost got striked for my own ticket. But you're right let me just watch my lang-- Oh wait.

While that is a big oops, and a bad one.. I don't see you actually being in danger of getting a strike. They don't strike you till you get a chance to talk to them and it's pretty obvious once they did they realized their mistake and made SURE to let you know that it wasn't a violation against you. So while you did get a "fun" visit to the gaol, you still haven't made any evidence that even innocent people are racking up strikes against themselves.