!! Fix Healer Rescue

[Goji1639]

Pretty funny hearing that from you.

Care to explain? Of course not, that's just a throwaway passive aggressive remark kept as vague as possible because you know it actually makes no sense.

The Healers here are the ones trying to convince themselves Rescue can't be touched because their use of it is just too clutch and vital to be lost. I know that my being spared a few GCDs isn't going to save the world, I just think optimizing is fun.

Snip

Like I said, dying is far more humbling. If being humbled is what I was trying to avoid then I would simply never put myself at risk; I certainly wouldn't intentionally take damage to maximize uptime. If a Healer rescues you it's because he thinks you're in danger. The problem is that he's usually wrong; just because you're about to take some damage doesn't mean you're in danger. Most Healers are bad at using Rescue, so statistically we're all probably better off if they don't use it.

Also, an icon on the character hit box near his health bar would work perfectly. You have to actually look at the character to see where he's standing, so you don't have to divert any focus to notice they don't have Rescue enabled. I believe you can weave Rescue anyways, so even if it occasionally fails what exactly are you losing? It's not like your rotation is super busy.

[White_Wolf_X]

Care to explain? Of course not, that's just a throwaway passive aggressive remark kept as vague as possible because you know it actually makes no sense.

The Healers here are the ones trying to convince themselves Rescue can't be touched because their use of it is just too clutch and vital to be lost. I know that my being spared a few GCDs isn't going to save the world, I just think optimizing is fun.



Like I said, dying is far more humbling. If being humbled is what I was trying to avoid then I would simply never put myself at risk; I certainly wouldn't intentionally take damage to maximize uptime. If a Healer rescues you it's because he thinks you're in danger. The problem is that he's usually wrong; just because you're about to take some damage doesn't mean you're in danger. Most Healers are bad at using Rescue, so statistically we're all probably better off if they don't use it.

Also, an icon on the character hit box near his health bar would work perfectly. You have to actually look at the character to see where he's standing, so you don't have to divert any focus to notice they don't have Rescue enabled. I believe you can weave Rescue anyways, so even if it occasionally fails what exactly are you losing? It's not like your rotation is super busy.

If you can't see why is funny hearing "It's interesting the things people will try to convince themselves of in order to feel important." coming from the one wanting a toggle for something that happen once in a blue moon.. then i don't know what to say.

[Goji1639]

If you can't see why is funny hearing "It's interesting the things people will try to convince themselves of in order to feel important." coming from the one wanting a toggle for something that happen once in a blue moon.. then i don't know what to say.

Is there a reason why there shouldn't be a toggle? It's incredibly easy to code and would take virtually no effort for SE. World of Warcraft added a toggle to the same ability for the same reasons.

I'm just taking a good idea that World of Warcraft had to fix this annoyance and saying why not do it here?

[Miracle_Diva]

Is there a reason why there shouldn't be a toggle? It's incredibly easy to code and would take virtually no effort for SE. World of Warcraft added a toggle to the same ability for the same reasons.

I'm just taking a good idea that World of Warcraft had to fix this annoyance and saying why not do it here?

Maybe you should go play World of Warcraft then, you said they don't have that *problem* there.
Also how do you know if it's easy or not to code something in this game? You work for SE?

[Goji1639]

Maybe you should go play World of Warcraft then, you said they don't have that *problem* there.
Also how do you know if it's easy or not to code something in this game? You work for SE?

Nope, but I do code and I do know that SE already has the functionality coded in this game to disable pull in effects. They only have to flip a switch to turn it on under the right conditions. This isn't complex or layered.

Also, I like this game better than WoW overall. It doesn't mean this game can't benefit from many of the good ideas WoW has implemented; that game is the top MMO for a reason.

[Miracle_Diva]

Nope, but I do code and I do know that SE already has the functionality coded in this game to disable pull in effects. They only have to flip a switch to turn it on under the right conditions. This isn't complex or layered.

Also, I like this game better than WoW overall. It doesn't mean this game can't benefit from many of the good ideas WoW has implemented; that game is the top MMO for a reason.

I don't think your idea is good so as many other people. We also know that XIV has potato code that needs fixing. Things that work easy in your head might not be easy in reality.
Get a healer friend or get over it.

[Goji1639]

I don't think your idea is good so as many other people. We also know that XIV has potato code that needs fixing. Things that work easy in your head might not be easy in reality.
Get a healer friend or get over it.

If Square were to say they can't do it then whatever. I'm probably not going to stop suggesting things I want in this game just because you told me to, though.

Arguments like "get over it" only lend credibility to the idea that Rescue has no redeeming value. When you respond like that you're basically admitting that you can't really come up with anything in defense of that abilities current function.

[Packetdancer]

Is there a reason why there shouldn't be a toggle? It's incredibly easy to code and would take virtually no effort for SE. World of Warcraft added a toggle to the same ability for the same reasons.

As many, many, many healers have said in this thread, a toggle would simply prevent Rescue from being used, as healers already track enough things; buffs, debuffs, whether the other AST gave that particular DPS a card yet or not, has the other AST popped Divination recently and so it's a good time to pop yours, or is there a risk they're about to do the same and it'll overwrite. Moreover, in higher-end content people can have enough buffs and debuffs going at once that they actually vanish off the side of the party list, forcing you to select the player to check their full buffs and debuffs.

Rescue's timing is incredibly weird (which is why it is hit-or-miss whether it works or not); in order to have even a chance that it fires properly you need to pop it almost immediately when it becomes clear it'll save someone. If there was a debuff buried somewhere in that list which said "Rescue will not work on this person, just let them die when they stand in the AoE", by the time you could find it and confirm someone had it, it would already be too late to use Rescue.

So—as many, many, many healers in this thread have said—if there was a toggle that meant there was a solid chance that our Rescue ability just arbitrarily wouldn't work based on someone else's decision, rather than seeking the indicator that this DPS has disabled our ability to save them, the majority of us would just assume that they had, remove Rescue from our bars, and use that casting window to do other things.

At which point you would've spent a lot of time and development energy coding a toggle for one ability which would, functionally, have the same effect as just removing the ability would've. Thus, if Rescue is enough of a problem to warrant a toggle, then it makes more sense to just remove it and give healers something else to fill that slot. (Ideally something unique to the role, since literally every healer utility other than the instant reposition of Rescue is shared with some other job.)

This is why I argue that if you want to take the toggle path (solely to allow Rescue to be used in uptime with pre-discussion with others), rather than adding special case code just for Rescue, it makes more sense to examine the toggle functionality more generally and see where else can benefit. That way, the dev time isn't wasted on just one niche situation; Rescue is, after all, far from the only ability in this game that can be used to troll.

(I mean, I think a lot of us could make a solid argument for why RDM LB3 should be able to be disabled in PUG runs of anything involving floor mechanics. It might be a ridiculous argument, but I've died to RDMs trolling by making all floor mechanics invisible with LB3 more often than I've died to someone misusing Rescue.)

Nope, but I do code and I do know that SE already has the functionality coded in this game to disable pull in effects. They only have to flip a switch to turn it on under the right conditions. This isn't complex or layered.

This is an oversimplification. While you're right that knockback immunity status effects exist in game, and so you could hypothetically just make this toggle to that, you're leaving out how those effects are actually implemented and the results this would have on gameplay.

The current effect nullifies far more than Rescue; using knockback immunity makes you immune to many boss knockback and draw-in mechanics. If you just had a toggle to turn the knockback prevention effect on constantly, you're now giving someone 100% immunity to all knockbacks and draw-ins that can be nullified; they only need to disable Rescue to turn that on. Obviously, that's no good; it would be cheesed to the moon and back, as people would just toggle it regardless to prevent all knockbacks.

So let's say you just make it so that when you hit someone with Rescue who has that toggle on, it turns on the effect for, say, five seconds (to avoid the Rescue effect from acting on the person). This is better, right? But you would absolutely have people cheese that, too. After all, it would effectively let you give someone an extra knockback immunity. Have someone disable Rescue, then the healer casts Rescue on them right before a knockback where they want to keep uptime, et voila, they get the anti-Rescue knockback immunity and stay in place without having to eat their Arm's Length; now they have that cooldown still available for a different mechanic later.

(And if you don't think people would cheese things that way with it, your experiences in high-end content are extremely different than mine.)

So, really, for the toggle to function the way you intend specifically, you'd need to make a new status effect which specifically granted immunity to Rescue (say, grants a 100% dodge chance to that one specific ability) rather than having Rescue fire and just blocking the knockback effect. Which is fine, but means you can't use the existing knockback/draw-in immunity code... which means the existence of said effect is sort of irrelevant to implementing this.

You have to write a new method of preventing it anyway.

[Goji1639]

Snip

As I've answered "many many times," an icon can be placed on the actual character plate. If you can see where he's standing you can see whether or not Rescue will work, no additional thinking required.

If some Healers will abandon Rescue if it's a toggle then whatever, it's their choice. There's really no reason to, though.

As for the coding, all the switch has to do is make a differentiation between friendly and enemy units, which we also know the game can already do. Pop an Arms Length type effect when a friendly unit attempts to reposition you via pull in or knock back. There's only one way friendly units can reposition you, so done and done.

I admit I'm also bewildered. I think I have probably been Rescued less than 10 times in this game total (whether playing healer or not), and as a healer I find myself using Rescue maybe once every other month, usually on sprouts in Crystal Tower raids who don't know the mechanics and are about to die.

This thread makes it sound like Rescue is used constantly, to the point that Goji's describing other players as "the enemy", which seems incredibly extreme.

Yes, other players can be a hindrance or a hazard; I've had plenty of people run around in a panic and drop an AoE on me, drag the trailing-exoflare mechanics across where I'm standing during Dun Scaith, Orbonne Monastery or Copied Factory. I've seen people not interrupt the adds in Puppets' Bunker more times than I want to think (thus inflicting paralysis on me). I've had people run across landmines and obliterate the entire party in Palace of the Dead or Heaven-on-High... sometimes near the end of the deep dungeon.

Heck, I've seen DPS greed more than a few times on E9S, die, and then taken their portion of a spread-or-stack mechanic in addition to my own since they're down, thus instantly dying.

In short, I have racked up quite a few deaths and wipes in this game which stem from someone else doing a thing wrong. But that doesn't mean the other players are "the enemy"; this is a collaborative game, and I'm still trying to work with them to solve things. (Even when sometimes the other players might make me want to tear out my own hair.)

You all get too worked up over my use of the word "enemy." I'm basically just using it interchangeably with the word obstacle; which is what Healers are in this situation.

Asking for a toggle is hardly extreme, and there have been no compelling points made against the idea; so I'm continuing to promote it. That's all that's happening with me here.

[White_Wolf_X]

Is there a reason why there shouldn't be a toggle? It's incredibly easy to code and would take virtually no effort for SE. World of Warcraft added a toggle to the same ability for the same reasons.

I'm just taking a good idea that World of Warcraft had to fix this annoyance and saying why not do it here?

World of Warcraft don't have a "toggle" to disable Leap of faith.