5.3 Preliminary Patch Note

[WaxSw]

The most important part of learning is the ability to adjust; take away the ability to put new knowledge into practice and new knowledge is far less likely to be retained. If we're REALLY running with the idea that Coincounter was some kind of crucial learning experience for new players, then it's a very poorly realized one.

Reality is that it's just a crap mechanic. Maybe when FATES were more popular it made a bit more sense, but as it stands right now it's just a cheesy bit of inept combat design that SE would rather not be displaying to the world. Let it disappear.

Its a very well designed boss, for starters the insta kill is only for dps and healers, the latter usually are farther from the boss so the run is hardly at risk. Tanks, which are usually more focused on mechanics and what the boss is doing are not punished hard since for them that is not that necessary and while doing that you once again don't risk the run meanwhile dps who are usually the players that tunnel vission the most and pay less attention are the ones that get more punished with a death, breaking their gameplay flow and basically telling them to pay attention to more things aside the numbers they do and their skills, and lastly for healers if they are at ranged distance the only problematic mechanics are the eye's ones which are non lethal serving as a callout to pay attention but like tank's case without risking the clear.

All the battle mechanics in that boss tell one thing "Pay attention to the boss, don't overrely on aoe marks" and all the mechanics do that without putting the party under a real risk, if the dps die they can get up with a res and practice as well as practice that principle of not relying too much on aoe marks in further trials. Coincounter is far from a boss with crap mechanics, is a good teacher that punishes you if you do bad but never hard enough to make it frustrating, the problem are the players that refuse to learn or adapt and tab into other things as soon as they die once even when the fight is not over, you have a good teacher, be a good student.

[Goji1639]

Its a very well designed boss, for starters the insta kill is only for dps and healers, the latter usually are farther from the boss so the run is hardly at risk. Tanks, which are usually more focused on mechanics and what the boss is doing are not punished hard since for them that is not that necessary and while doing that you once again don't risk the run meanwhile dps who are usually the players that tunnel vission the most and pay less attention are the ones that get more punished with a death, breaking their gameplay flow and basically telling them to pay attention to more things aside the numbers they do and their skills, and lastly for healers if they are at ranged distance the only problematic mechanics are the eye's ones which are non lethal serving as a callout to pay attention but like tank's case without risking the clear.

All the battle mechanics in that boss tell one thing "Pay attention to the boss, don't overrely on aoe marks" and all the mechanics do that without putting the party under a real risk, if the dps die they can get up with a res and practice as well as practice that principle of not relying too much on aoe marks in further trials. Coincounter is far from a boss with crap mechanics, is a good teacher that punishes you if you do bad but never hard enough to make it frustrating, the problem are the players that refuse to learn or adapt and tab into other things as soon as they die once even when the fight is not over, you have a good teacher, be a good student.

Those boss mechanics aren't well designed. They don't demand you pay attention to survive it; they demand you Youtube the fight before hand. That's the only way to approach a fight where the attacks don't have tells. Otherwise you just die and don't get to participate in the fight. If that's what you think a well designed boss is, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

I'm starting to think that explaining what good gameplay is to MMO players is kind of like trying to explain music to a deaf man. He has no concept of what it is, so there's really nothing you can say to make him understand.

Don't confuse shit difficulty with designs that demand you learn. There's nothing good about a dungeon causing issues for the party for the sake of a "challenge", it just means the dungeon is bad and needs a rework beyond nerfing a boss only the worst players who refuse to do better have a problem with.

Presenting obstacles and issues to overcome is the core of difficulty. Good gameplay involves obstacles that are tough but fair; attacks that are difficult to react/adjust to but entirely possible. A 1 hit kill with no telegraph is just BS you'd only really expect from combat designers who have no idea what they're doing.

[Veis_Alveare]

no idea what they're doing.

You don't need to live through your first encounter with a boss or mechanic. It's okay to die, wipe and die again.

There is literally no down side apart from a few gil in repair bills if you haven't leveled crafters.

It's perfectly fine.

[Goji1639]

You don't need to live through your first encounter with a boss or mechanic. It's okay to die, wipe and die again.

There is literally no down side apart from a few gil in repair bills if you haven't leveled crafters.

It's perfectly fine.

The downside is a poor learning environment and/or an extremely lackluster experience for new players.

New player gets to the boss... He dies because there's no way to know what to do... The group clears the fight anyways... The new player doesn't experience that mechanic again until maybe 3 expansions later...

So, what did the experience boil down to for the new player? A shitty, cheap 1 hit kill death with no telegraph, that he had no fair chance to avoid, that didn't even serve as a decent teaching mechanism; because he couldn't put the lesson into practice.

It's just bad design that leads to an extremely mediocre experience for new players. Good riddance.

[Ammokkx]

New player gets to the boss... He dies because there's no way to know what to do... The group clears the fight anyways...

If the group keep fighting without the newbie then that means the healer isn't using their ressurection

And I highly doubt that if the healer isn't using their resurrection they could even make it past the first boss

[Goji1639]

If the group keep fighting without the newbie then that means the healer isn't using their ressurection

And I highly doubt that if the healer isn't using their resurrection they could even make it past the first boss

The DPS might get a res, or the healer might not bother. It's not exactly a difficult fight; it just has 1 lame mechanic that serves as an unavoidable blindside death for new players. In my experience healers usually let the new player stay dead; either being lazy or the group is struggling enough where the healer doesn't have the time/mana.

Doesn't matter, though; it's still a garbage mechanic, as it misses the mark on pretty much every rule established for even decent combat gameplay. The fact that healers can work around it if they feel like it, or you could just look up the mechanic yourself before the fight, doesn't make it good.