Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Amnmaat]

I definitely think you are doing a me, and just trying to argue to argue at this point. I dig it. A "hero" can have many different aspects and being a "protector" is one of them. Complete nonargument.
Hero
Protector

You could argue, that perhaps a protector doesn't have to be a hero, but they can also be one and the same. The real question is, what do you envision a hero that isn't a protector to look like, or a protector that isn't a hero? How would these qualities translate into the finished product of male viera? What differentiates these qualities to you into a concept for the look of a race? Are they not synonymous? When does the hero become the villain, or the protector the oppressor?

Your own description (without a source) don't state the same thing. Estenien striking down the cannon in Stormblood (you know which one) is a hero; Merlwyb's guard (Mistbeard) is a protector.

You should expect feminine, younger or a 'boyish" face (for males), they already did so with female viera. It's almost a trend to have like an ugly old man face, and or a young boyish face.

The sexes are different by nature. Men will almost always "out-age" their women facially (well until they hit their downward slide in the 30s). Female Roegadyn look younger than male Roegadyn, the same is true of every race including female Miqo'te. XIV just presents an unknown factor as to what the ratio of young to old faces will be like. From what I remember male Elezen's faces tend to lean to mature, as opposed to young, and we know Viera are closer to Elezen than to any race; female Elezen look to be about the same age in how they look. Out of the top of my head I remember male Miqo'te being split in half in terms young and mature.

[SturmChurro]

Your own description (without a source) don't state the same thing. Estenien striking down the cannon in Stormblood (you know which one) is a hero; Merlwyb's guard (Mistbeard) is a protector.


The sexes are different by nature. Men will almost always "out-age" their women facially (well until they hit their downward slide in the 30s). Female Roegadyn look younger than male Roegadyn, the same is true of every race including female Miqo'te. XIV just presents an unknown factor as to what the ratio of young to old faces will be like. From what I remember male Elezen's faces tend to lean to mature, as opposed to young, and we know Viera are closer to Elezen than to any race; female Elezen look to be about the same age in how they look. Out of the top of my head I remember male Miqo'te being split in half in terms young and mature.

The source is me copy and pasting each word into google. You are, again, seeming to ignore bits of what I have already posted. You seem to want to argue, yet you don't.

I don't care about your biological talk, for that matter it doesn't even actually mean anything for many Japanese game design or animated media. Have you seen lalafell, the miqo'te you always call boyish, or even midlanders? SE will choose a design they like and that's that. Old, young, it does not matter - only the design they have envisioned matters. They could look all old, or all young, some old, some young and that would be the design they go with. Male elezen have both and old man face, and a young boyish face. Female elezen actually only have two faces total - the least amount of customization options for faces in the game. Male miqo'te also have a younger, and older face. For that matter they just reuse bodies, so I don't know what you are trying to dispute. When they refer to male miqo'te face and elezen body, that just means that they are envisioned to look closest to probably like a tall male miqo'te. That doesn't necessarily mean they are going to look rugged or however you think a "hero and protector" should look like. You seem to be continuously trying to push this one-dimensional idea of how they should look, and claiming you somehow aren't. Besides there should be variance in their faces, young, old, whatever. It's for the players to decide. Your rugged, hero protectors will be dressed up in all manner of outfits that spit in the face of that idea.

[Amnmaat]

The source is me copy and pasting each word into google. You are, again, seeming to ignore bits of what I have already posted. You seem to want to argue, yet you don't.

I don't care about your biological talk, for that matter it doesn't even actually mean anything for many Japanese game design or animated media. Have you seen lalafell, the miqo'te you always call boyish, or even midlanders? SE will choose a design they like and that's that. Old, young, it does not matter - only the design they have envisioned matters. They could look all old, or all young, some old, some young and that would be the design they go with. Male elezen have both and old man face, and a young boyish face. Female elezen actually only have two faces total - the least amount of customization options for faces in the game. Male miqo'te also have a younger, and older face. For that matter they just reuse bodies, so I don't know what you are trying to dispute. When they refer to male miqo'te face and elezen body, that just means that they are envisioned to look closest to probably like a tall male miqo'te. That doesn't necessarily mean they are going to look rugged or however you think a "hero and protector" should look like. You seem to be continuously trying to push this one-dimensional idea of how they should look, and claiming you somehow aren't.

Just because you don't understand that hero and protector are two different qualities doesn't mean that it's wrong, you just don't understand it.
You might not care for "biological" talk but art like video games, specifically FFXIV is based on real life; it's why we have human-like creatures in the game instead of made up creatures. Furthermore, it's also why every race in the game, except for Lalafel follows the older male to younger female structure.

[SturmChurro]

Just because you don't understand that hero and protector are two different qualities doesn't mean that it's wrong, you just don't understand it.
You might not care for "biological" talk but art like video games, specifically FFXIV is based on real life; it's why we have human-like creatures in the game instead of made up creatures. Furthermore, it's also why every race in the game, except for Lalafel follows the older male to younger female structure.

No, you are the one who doesn't seem to understand it. Nor have you answered the question of what you think differentiates these qualities, or how these qualities would translate into a character design. Unless you only have a one-dimensional view of what these qualities should look like?

What the heck are you even talking about? Seriously? Are we even playing the same game? FFXIV based on real life? Ridiculous.

[Amnmaat]

No, you are the one who doesn't seem to understand it. Nor have you answered the question of what you think differentiates these qualities, or how these qualities would translate into a character design. Unless you only have a one-dimensional view of what these qualities should look like?

What the heck are you even talking about? Seriously? Are we even playing the same game? FFXIV based on real life? Ridiculous.

Calm down, your propensity to anger is not healthy.
I explained why and how FFXIV is based on real life, just like any art medium. This is not a foreign concept, research "art imitating real life;" where do you think they get the ideas of empires, chemical weapons, or even the machinist job?

On your other point, you answered the question with your own description of the two qualities, they are not the same; similar sounding, but different in how they operate.

[BadLala]

You seem to want to argue, yet you don't.

Nah, he just wants to feel he won an internet argument. So he'll ignore what he can't respond to, strawman your arguments and outright lie. It became clearer when he never gave a source about his genderlocking claim and when he used Yoshida's response as a "source", even though it doesn't show any of his claims, but mentions the cost of development time.

[SturmChurro]

Calm down, your propensity to anger is not healthy.
I explained why and how FFXIV is based on real life, just like any art medium. This is not a foreign concept, research "art imitating real life;" where do you think they get the ideas of empires, chemical weapons, or even the machinist job?

On your other point, you answered the question with your own description of the two qualities, they are not the same; similar sounding, but different in how they operate.

I am slightly amused and getting bored, but definitely not angry. Why I humored you before. At this point, there isn't much more to post pertaining to this idiotic argument than I already have. I don't have the post count left to continue playing these games.

I don't know what any of this has to do with character design. Again, we might want a specific look for male viera, but SE can make them look like whatever they want, whether we like it or not, whether it is what you perceive as "based on real life" or not. No, previous concept art isn't what the finished product will look like either, until it's actually released it's always subject to change.

Also, the statement of "hunan-like creatures in the game instead of made up creatures" is verifiably false, and you should know that. Another reason, I think this may just be baiting, and I am getting a taste of my own medicine.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

1: Show me where he said he's looking to the possibility of adding races in the future? On the other hand, he said that because of all work required there might not be any new races in the future.
Compare that to the fact that if he finds a way around QA, debugging, and other issues he'll add the missing genders.
Those are two very different approaches.

2: No no no, you're not the one who decides what this is about, the starting point of this debate was about adding Bangaa, to which I said that would never happen. So no, you don't move the goalpost to wherever you want to move it to.
On the point of marketing, data analysis, and the extra work required; yes, this is required. You as the producer don't run the organization by yourself, you would have to create a presentation, backed up by data and tangible sources to prove to the various departments and personal why Bangaa should be a feature in the next expansion. I don't know if you work at a farm or you flip burgers, but this is how organizations are ran.

3:Together, reptilian race scored barely below mammillian (Viera)
The other choices like mixed race and extra clans have been explained by the devs as "we get into the issue of why add mixed races and the lore you would have to create for that, when we could instead add a new race." It's been well documented why hybrid races and extra clans have design flaws and are an issue in terms of new features to the game. You'd run into a lot of issues like how they chose a hybrid race I don't like or that is weird (lalafel + Roegadyn); they'd have to introduce a hybrid race for all races or a clan for all races to really fulfill those 2 requests.

That really only leaves mamillian and reptilian (for which they created 2 options, 1 bestman and 1 demi human); the "reptilian" results were slightly below mammillian. Also notice how they listed Reptilian twice? He was most likely fishing for what he wanted; present this to marketing and CEOs and they'd just go "hmm they voted a lot for reptilian" when you put them together. His data backed up what he wanted.

He also cited players support as the reason that they decided to add the missing Miqo'te and Roegadyn genders. You can't just add whatever you want, you have to back up what you want to add through data and support from the fanbase.

I question your reading comprehension. Or are you once again just putting words into peoples mouths so you can try to sneak a win into your arguments?
I didn't say anything about him "Looking into the possibility" I said that he said "This is "Likely" the last races. Which means he didn't outright say no to future playable races. Once again repeating myself, that the same amount of work goes into making a Separate Gender as it would making a new race. Its the same amount of work when developing a race or a gender for that race, the model, animations, emotes, etc. Im not gonna repeat this again, because if I have to, then you are purposefully ignoring it, and don't know how developing something works.
My argument was never about adding Bangaa over the Missing Genders, YOU want to make that the argument. And yes, if they wanted to, they could put in Bangaa, IF they had the means to do so. If the Hrothgar and Viera aren't in fact the last races.

This is my last post to you on this subject.
If you have anything to say about other subjects in the future, MAYBE Ill reply to you. But you've shown yourself to be untrustworthy, willing to misquote and create strawman arguments out of thin air. Im not dealing with somebody who will lie to win.

[Amnmaat]

Nah, he just wants to feel he won an internet argument. So he'll ignore what he can't respond to, strawman your arguments and outright lie. It became clearer when he never gave a source about his genderlocking claim and when he used Yoshida's response as a "source", even though it doesn't show any of his claims, but mentions the cost of development time.

It's the in the first or second post of where this subject started. The burden that I didn't bring it up is on you, not me.

I am slightly amused and getting bored, but definitely not angry. Why I humored you before. At this point, there isn't much more to post pertaining to this idiotic argument than I already have. I don't have the post count left to continue playing these games.

I don't know what any of this has to do with character design. Again, we might want a specific look for male viera, but SE can make them look like whatever they want, whether we like it or not, whether it is what you perceive as "based on real life" or not. No, previous concept art isn't what the finished product will look like either, until it's actually released it's always subject to change.

Also, the statement of "hunan-like creatures in the game instead of made up creatures" is verifiably false, and you should know that. Another reason, I think this may just be baiting, and I am getting a taste of my own medicine.

1. Great attempt at masking your virulent anger, but that's clearly anger:

What the heck are you even talking about? Seriously? Are we even playing the same game? FFXIV based on real life? Ridiculous.

. No wonder none of your arguments have any counter arguments and just answer themselves and you don't realize it. Furthermore, you started this "idiotic" argument; might want to reflect on that.

2. Oh so nothing matters now? Typical "I lost the argument" concession.

3. Just because you say it doesn't make it "verifiably false." Art imitates real life, just the fact that you have human-like creatures proves this, but more factors add to this such as historical events, cultures, and even job designs.

I question your reading comprehension. Or are you once again just putting words into peoples mouths so you can try to sneak a win into your arguments?
I didn't say anything about him "Looking into the possibility" I said that he said "This is "Likely" the last races. Which means he didn't outright say no to future playable races. Once again repeating myself, that the same amount of work goes into making a Separate Gender as it would making a new race. Its the same amount of work when developing a race or a gender for that race, the model, animations, emotes, etc. Im not gonna repeat this again, because if I have to, then you are purposefully ignoring it, and don't know how developing something works.
My argument was never about adding Bangaa over the Missing Genders, YOU want to make that the argument. And yes, if they wanted to, they could put in Bangaa, IF they had the means to do so. If the Hrothgar and Viera aren't in fact the last races.

This is my last post to you on this subject.
If you have anything to say about other subjects in the future, MAYBE Ill reply to you. But you've shown yourself to be untrustworthy, willing to misquote and create strawman arguments out of thin air. Im not dealing with somebody who will lie to win.

1. It wouldn't be the same amount of work. All races but a few share the same models except the head. Bangaa would be its own model like male Roegadyn and Lalafels. I mean this is too easy, but I don't think you knew how bad your point in this argument was.
2. New race would still require the considerations I brought up. I'm the one who has to repeat himself; the work and time required to get the data, present the data, and get approval is much longer and strenuous than an existing race who's just missing genders.
3. You butt into my original statement which was about Bangaa, you don't get to change what it was about. That's not how things work.

[LittleChickenNugget]

I'm glad to see it's the same exact people having the same exact arguments 6 months later.