Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Tabbs]

You might not care for "biological" talk but art like video games, specifically FFXIV is based on real life; it's why we have human-like creatures in the game instead of made up creatures. Furthermore, it's also why every race in the game, except for Lalafel follows the older male to younger female structure.

3. Just because you say it doesn't make it "verifiably false." Art imitates real life, just the fact that you have human-like creatures proves this, but more factors add to this such as historical events, cultures, and even job designs.

Ignoring the stereotyping, you're only half right. "Art imitates life" is only literal in that we use it as a point of reference or as self-expression. It is otherwise subjective and debatable. A lot of art, for example, is depictions of what we *want to see* rather than what life *actually is*. It would be more accurate to say, in your case, that "art imitates the ideal of life" or that "life imitates art" as Oscar Wilde put it. You're taking a phrase rooted in the culture and history of the arts and applying it to your opinion of how someone should look based on your associations with a couple of words.

If you observe art movements throughout history, you'll see that we go through periods of idealizing life and then artists subsequently rejecting that in favor of realism or personal expression. Look at Dadaism. It was a direct response from artists of the time to patrons and critics telling them what art is "supposed to be". That the people need to be beautiful, that the landscapes need to be lush. It was an *offense* to depict the common man at work at various points in history, but real life wasn't pretty or romantic. People weren't all sculpted athletes and models. Look up "The Gleaners" -- The rich French (patrons, the Salon, critics, etc.) hated it for depicting a reality they didn't want to face. These things still happen today, frequently (and especially in games/visdev settings).

But like Churro said, SE can and will do pretty much whatever they want. Yeah, male Viera will probably be marginally taller than the women with potential to be marginally shorter, that's just the track record they've set. But after that? Who knows my guy.

Anyways sorry for rambling in the middle there, I love talking about art lol.

TLDR: "Art imitates life" is a cliche and overused phrase that isn't even necessarily true when so much art is based on ideals. Also stereotypes bad ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[craybest]

i have no idea where this topic is heading XD

[Amnmaat]

Ignoring the stereotyping, you're only half right. "Art imitates life" is only literal in that we use it as a point of reference or as self-expression. It is otherwise subjective and debatable. A lot of art, for example, is depictions of what we *want to see* rather than what life *actually is*. It would be more accurate to say, in your case, that "art imitates the ideal of life" or that "life imitates art" as Oscar Wilde put it. You're taking a phrase rooted in the culture and history of the arts and applying it to your opinion of how someone should look based on your associations with a couple of words.

If you observe art movements throughout history, you'll see that we go through periods of idealizing life and then artists subsequently rejecting that in favor of realism or personal expression. Look at Dadaism. It was a direct response from artists of the time to patrons and critics telling them what art is "supposed to be". That the people need to be beautiful, that the landscapes need to be lush. It was an *offense* to depict the common man at work at various points in history, but real life wasn't pretty or romantic. People weren't all sculpted athletes and models. Look up "The Gleaners" -- The rich French (patrons, the Salon, critics, etc.) hated it for depicting a reality they didn't want to face. These things still happen today, frequently (and especially in games/visdev settings).

But like Churro said, SE can and will do pretty much whatever they want. Yeah, male Viera will probably be marginally taller than the women with potential to be marginally shorter, that's just the track record they've set. But after that? Who knows my guy.

Anyways sorry for rambling in the middle there, I love talking about art lol.

TLDR: "Art imitates life" is a cliche and overused phrase that isn't even necessarily true when so much art is based on ideals. Also stereotypes bad ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

My statement was that I don't see male Viera looking like male Miqo'te, as much a valid opinion as "they'll make it look like whatever." Both are opinion; one has reasons why, the other is the obvious; a non-statement. I brought up many points why.

[Amnmaat]

i have no idea where this topic is heading XD

That's how you get to 1200+ pages, the usual suspects question every opinion and and claim you're passing all of it as a fact. And then they bring no valid points as to why said opinion is wrong, just their own opinion.

My statement was that I don't see male Viera looking like male Miqo'te, as much a valid opinion as "they'll make it look like whatever." Both are opinion; one has reasons why, the other is the obvious; a non-statement. I brought up many points why.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

Unless they are trying to pass it as a fact, retreating to "Dude, it's just my opinion" when someone calls it out.

[Amnmaat]

Unless they are trying to pass it as a fact, retreating to "Dude, it's just my opinion" when someone calls it out.

Throughout the discussions I have never retreated to such a statement. However, a lot of other people have, with the "it could look as anything (I was just challenging your opinion just because)."

[Tabbs]

My statement was that I don't see male Viera looking like male Miqo'te, as much a valid opinion as "they'll make it look like whatever." Both are opinion; one has reasons why, the other is the obvious; a non-statement. I brought up many points why.

Yes, but I'm not debating your opinion. You're free to think they'll look however you want -- I have my preferences too. What I am doing is saying "hey, cool opinion, but the way you're using this phrase isn't correct".

It's just ironic to see someone using idealized standards and stereotypes to describe how someone should or shouldn't look and then say "hey, art imitates life". Life is not idealized. Life is different for everyone. Feminine faces can be strong, masculine faces can be weak. Yeah there are some consistent physical differences/similarities between people, but this concept that certain people need to be a certain physique or behave a certain way is the direct result of people watching too much tv and playing too many games (where things are *usually* idealized); just as in history the rich French did not want to be faced with paintings of the poor doing their labor because it wasn't beautiful to them.

At any rate, it's bed time for me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Brightmore]

Well, as far as I hear and know, as the male was never show anywhere any answer is just concept and opinion.
The only lead was those artworks posted by the OP and is the only base for fact debate that it was show in a fanfest or another event(and one art posted by the creator of viera that shows how he refer to the male viera).
Support comes from all the visions and expectation... Invalidating one just my desires are another is not mature, as IF they would be inserted, they can change the final product as they please.

[Brightmore]

Support comes from all the visions and expectation... Invalidating one just my desires are another is not mature, as IF they would be inserted, they can change the final product as they please.

Le dang of using mobiles:
Invalidating one, just for my desires upon another is not mature...

[Amnmaat]

Yes, but I'm not debating your opinion. You're free to think they'll look however you want -- I have my preferences too. What I am doing is saying "hey, cool opinion, but the way you're using this phrase isn't correct".

It's just ironic to see someone using idealized standards and stereotypes to describe how someone should or shouldn't look and then say "hey, art imitates life". Life is not idealized. Life is different for everyone. Feminine faces can be strong, masculine faces can be weak. Yeah there are some consistent physical differences/similarities between people, but this concept that certain people need to be a certain physique or behave a certain way is the direct result of people watching too much tv and playing too many games (where things are *usually* idealized); just as in history the rich French did not want to be faced with paintings of the poor doing their labor because it wasn't beautiful to them.

At any rate, it's bed time for me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

On the point of male faces looking "strong/rugged/animilastic/hardened (whatever synonym that can go here"; this is a fact. Male faces are strong; the exception is the exception for a reason. All the males in XIV have more strong faces than feminine, or as you say "weak" ones.

Thing is, I'm using points to back up my statement. Just because someone says men can have feminine faces doesn't actually mean that's the standard in terms of game design within the game. Male Viera will most likely have strong faces with 1 feminine face, as is the case with all the male sin the game except maybe 1 of them? Miqo'te? Hyur?