Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Amnmaat]

So eager to come to someone elses defensive. Lol Guess Ill do the same...
You know what she is Getting at.

SturmChurro's post was about how much work goes into making a new Avatar. Even though Female Viera and Male Hrothgar are in the game, if they make the "Missing Genders" the same amount of work will go into making them. The Model, the features, the customization options, the voices, animations & emotes, and X amount of Premade NPCs. Not to mention fitting the gear to the model and scaling it to how tall you make your avatar.

The amount of work that will go into making the "Missing Genders" is about the same as making a New Race.
This is a good reason for YoshiP to say He can't confirm nor deny the possibility of the missing genders. The amount of work going into making the opposite gender will be just as hard as putting in the new races to begin with, they would like to do it, but dont know if they will, but dont completely rule it out.

Im sure you have fun trying to shut down people who say anything opposite of what you believe, and you have proven to speak for someone if they say something you agree with...
But SturmChurro isn't wrong in what they said.

Oh so you think the Marketing department is watching twitch all day instead of doing research and data analysis about their products? You can't just add a brand new race like Bangaa without months of review by the various departments; and it's not only Marketing. Viera and Hrothgar are existing races, it's a different type of request; the research is done.

Those are a one time cost, just like any other content that's being added to the game and they're not really the issue. The main issue is the continuous cost after adding them. Adding a new hairstyle requires modeling it and adjusting it for all races available including highlanders and midlanders separately. Adding a gear set will require making sure that every piece fits for all races without issues. So let's say we have a gear sets of 9 pieces and you have to check every piece for 16 models available (Hyur are similar to two races). That's 144 processes. Adding two character models increases it to 162, which is a 12.5% increase. Now some might say that some races use the same body mesh so that should reduce the cost. It does, but it still requires adjustments before using it. The main part that is not easy to get away from is the head mesh.

My statement went over your head. I wasn't talking about the development part of adding a new race. I was talking about the extra work, review process, and considerations required of adding a new race compared to missing genders.

Exactly. And also hoping they can figure out away around the cost.

The cost is not the problem, it's QA, debugging, and the amount of work. The cost isn't the real problem. https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/389675

[Vahlnir]

The cost is not the problem, it's QA, debugging, and the amount of work. The cost isn't the real problem. https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/389675

That QA, debugging and work costs money to make it all happen.

[Amnmaat]

That extra work is not an issue. Even Yoshida stated that as the first point in your link.

You're contradicting yourself

They can easily push any content to make room for it without requiring additional budget. They already do that for new content they're designing.

The main problem that's preventing them is the development cost and what comes after.

The cost IS the real problem. Cost includes everything from concept, development to QA and debugging and even time. The problem with a new playable race, is that it's a continuous cost that you can't turn back from once you implement it. ARR zones could have been left as is till 6.0 and it wouldn't have impacted any other content since it's still functional. If they completely stopped making any gear for Viera and Hrothgar, the uproar would be much worse than the headgear and hairstyles issue. So having designers spend time to ensure that gear can be used by these races is still a cost, whether it's development, QA, debugging or time.

You're conflating the word cost and you're actually agreeing with my statement. The problem is not cost, the problem is everything other than cost. The difference is that male Viera and Hrothgar would get through; Bangaa however would require extra work at all levels, specially the marketing level; they wouldn't even pass the marketing level haha.

Square knows their own audience dude, they've been around for quite a long time. The Final Fantasy Brand has been around, for quite a long time.
What analytics do they need to look into to decide if they wanna put in Bangaa if they so wanted? Tactics was successful, the Ivalice setting is Successful, if they wanted and had the means to do it, they would put in Bangaa as a Playable race. XIV has visited Ivalice, and now Fran and the Viera are apart of XIV.
Viera didnt need this Months of Review nonsense you are talking about, they were gonna be added way back in Heavensward, but the team decided to introduce a new race instead: the Au-ra, and then years later decided to do Viera because it was by popular demand, and the fact that developing new races for the game is taxing, so this may be the last time they may bo able to make a new race.

Btw, Hrothgar never existed until this game. So you either just lied to try and make your point or you mispoke.
And dont even try using the Ronso. Ronso have Unicorn Horns: only one face option has that. And Ronso are from Mt. Gagazet, a snowy place. Hrothgar are from Ilsabard

Every feature added to a product, specially a franchise goes through a rigorous process of analysis. You cannot add whatever you want, even as the producer of a game without passing it through Marketing and other departments; expansions specially would have to be reviewed and vetted by the CEOs. You cannot just add a race because people liked it in 2013; that's not how real organizations work.

The good news for (male) Viera and (female) Hrothgar is that their opposite genders already went through this process so the XIV group knows it would most likely be approved. They however would still need show analytics and fan support for it.

I don't know what kind of companies you have worked with and at what levels but you cannot make product changes on your own just because you feel like it. Bangaa and any new race would have to run around so many hurdles (analytics, research, marketing impact, franchise direction considerations, etc) that they would never be added; as opposed to the missing genders of Viera and Hrothgar. Why do you think he said outright "no" to a new race after Viera and Hrothgar but didn't say a definitive no to male Viera and female Hrothgar.

That QA, debugging and work costs money to make it all happen.

This is a complex problem that can’t be solved simply by throwing more money or people at it

You selectively decide to ignore what he said before the QA and Debugging part.

[Vahlnir]

You selectively decide to ignore what he said before the QA and Debugging part.

I ignored nothing. Just throwing money at some things won't be the solution to them. However, there are people on the dev team doing this work. They get a budget to work with and have to do what they can with it. Do you think the crafted glams they add each patch are free? No. That costs resources. Resources cost money. Everything they add to the game costs resources, man hours and money. And those people get paid, so...money makes the gears of development spin. Without money, no gear spinning. No gear spinning, no development. No development, no game. Money doesn't fix everything but it makes the world go round, including for game development.

[Amnmaat]

I ignored nothing. Just throwing money at some things won't be the solution to them. However, there are people on the dev team doing this work. They get a budget to work with and have to do what they can with it. Do you think the crafted glams they add each patch are free? No. That costs resources. Resources cost money. Everything they add to the game costs resources, man hours and money. And those people get paid, so...money makes the gears of development spin. Without money, no gear spinning. No gear spinning, no development. No development, no game. Money doesn't fix everything but it makes the world go round, including for game development.

Do you even understand what you're writing? The producer of the game is telling you money and more people isn't what's keeping them from adding Viera and you feel like your take on it as a player has more weight? Of course everything costs money but he said what he said, he's not concerned about money, he's concerned about the aspects outside of money like QA and debugging. Is english not your native language?

[Vahlnir]

Do you even understand what you're writing? The producer of the game is telling you money and more people isn't what's keeping them from adding Viera and you feel like your take on it as a player has more weight? Of course everything costs money but he said what he said, he's not concerned about money, he's concerned about the aspects outside of money like QA and debugging. Is english not your native language?

Starting to wonder the same.

My point was that everything costs money. Even adding Male Viera costs money. That's...basically all I was trying to say, though I guess I could/should have put it in simpler terms. I know what he said, and I understood it completely. But even the things he views as more important in the process still costs money. If money isn't an issue, that's fine, but the cost is still there.

[Amnmaat]

Starting to wonder the same.

And that's where you raised the white flag.

[Amnmaat]

Starting to wonder the same.

My point was that everything costs money. Even adding Male Viera costs money. That's...basically all I was trying to say, though I guess I could/should have put it in simpler terms. I know what he said, and I understood it completely. But even the things he views as more important in the process still costs money. If money isn't an issue, that's fine, but the cost is still there.

Haha

You know I had to laugh at you weaseling out of the conversation with a "all I was trying to say." I'll let you keep your dignity.
I'm a paying customer, I know it costs money.

[BadLala]

My statement went over your head. I wasn't talking about the development part of adding a new race. I was talking about the extra work, review process, and considerations required of adding a new race compared to missing genders.

That extra work is not an issue. They can easily push any content to make room for it without requiring additional budget. They already do that for new content they're designing. The main problem that's preventing them is the development cost and what comes after. Even Yoshida stated that as the first point in your link.

The cost is not the problem, it's QA, debugging, and the amount of work. The cost isn't the real problem. https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/389675

The cost IS the real problem. Cost includes everything from concept, development to QA and debugging and even time. The problem with a new playable race, is that it's a continuous cost that you can't turn back from once you implement it. ARR zones could have been left as is till 6.0 and it wouldn't have impacted any other content since it's still functional. If they completely stopped making any gear for Viera and Hrothgar, the uproar would be much worse than the headgear and hairstyles issue. So having designers spend time to ensure that gear can be used by these races is still a cost, whether it's development, QA, debugging or time.

[SturmChurro]

That extra work is not an issue. They can easily push any content to make room for it without requiring additional budget. They already do that for new content they're designing. The main problem that's preventing them is the development cost and what comes after. Even Yoshida stated that as the first point in your link.



The cost IS the real problem. Cost includes everything from concept, development to QA and debugging and even time. The problem with a new playable race, is that it's a continuous cost that you can't turn back from once you implement it. ARR zones could have been left as is till 6.0 and it wouldn't have impacted any other content since it's still functional. If they completely stopped making any gear for Viera and Hrothgar, the uproar would be much worse than the headgear and hairstyles issue. So having designers spend time to ensure that gear can be used by these races is still a cost, whether it's development, QA, debugging or time.

That cost is the literal explanation why they said they couldn't add those missing genders in the first place. It would slow their patch schedule. I guess that ship has already sailed with the corona however.

I'm just over here hoping we get our hairstyles for viera and faces for hrothgar before the end of time!