All DPS clears highlight a problem with encounter design in ShB

[Deceptus]

Replacing tanks or healers for Dps has existed since ARR, Neal Dues Darnus was a solo tank affair, t8 could be solo tanked as well, Ramuh EX briefly was a no tank affair, so on and so on.

People will find a way to replace healers and tanks the moment they can, if it is easy to do it will be the defacto strategy to do it, fortunately no fight this expansion was defacto solo tank or solo heal but something that is possible if skilled enough.

However I think the devs really do need to sit down and look at healing requirements and healer toolkits when designing content, as TEA is solo healable, something I think should not be allowed ever, Ultimates should be pushing the standard comp to its limits and that has 2 healers not 1, they absolutely could do the same for savage particularly the last floors of each set.

They tried forcing with mechanics but people build work arounds unless you do something like a7s where things hit hard enough and 1 healer gets incapacitated, so healing requirements NEED to be uped in Savage and Ultimate so long as we have our current toolkits.

LoL Remember when people were Tanking Ramuh EX with Titan-Egi because of his natural Nature Resist?

[QooEr]

They're never gonna make casual content harder because it will destroy the casual playerbase of the game.
They specifically designed casual content to be as face-rolly as possible, and the few fights with dps checks in the game have echo built in.
Even EX dps checks have very forgiving dps checks where you can just die 12 times and still clear.

If you wanna be challenged, come and do Savage and Ultimates. It's a lot more fun than casual content imho.

The complaint is that even savage content has too low healing requirements, even at low item level, to the point its actually absurd.

I also dont know why Extreme trials became what they are now, look at niddhogg extreme when it was released and compare it to the ruby weapon.

A few parties give it a go but because of some annoying "targets both healers" mechanics, it's too much of a hassle for most parties gain.

so bascially the only reason people bring 2 healers is just because the mechanics force the composition, and not because healers need to actually heal anything.

[ForteNightshade]

They're never gonna make casual content harder because it will destroy the casual playerbase of the game.
They specifically designed casual content to be as face-rolly as possible, and the few fights with dps checks in the game have echo built in.
Even EX dps checks have very forgiving dps checks where you can just die 12 times and still clear.

If you wanna be challenged, come and do Savage and Ultimates. It's a lot more fun than casual content imho.

Except even Savage suffers from low healing requirement. It takes a full two minutes for Idol of Darkness to do anything warranting a GCD heal. Empty Wave goes out but nothing else for long enough Whispering Dawn and Assize will easily tick every up without either healer ever having to slow down their Broil/Glare spam. That's ridiculous for the third fight of a tier.

And while it may be their philosophy to make casual content face-rolling. That is also why they're receiving so many complaints nowadays from even average healers how boring the jobs have become. You literally don't need two healers, thus one ends up being a gimped DPS bot half the time. Tanking has suffered similarly but they have a rotation to fall back on. Healers spam a single button 90% of their time—which is not what people envisioned doing as healers I imagine. Hence why Shadowbringers has seen such a large amount of backlash towards the role. You can make casual content easy while still giving healers something to heal, or at the very least, something else to do.

[Payotz]

snip

Oh I'm not defending the practice. I've been wanting more healing checks and dps checks in a lot more content ever since Stormblood.
It just wouldn't really be viable in SE's mind because they seem to be really focusing on new players and casual players this expansion to the point that what little depth all jobs had was ripped away from them. I even remembered where Yoshi said that WHM was hard to play back in Stormblood and they wanted to make the job "easier". Even solo duties, which isn't that hard frankly, has a very easy mode version, and most solo duties in the expansion literally only gives you 4 buttons.

It'll be nice if there's some greater push by the dev team for a difficulty bump in casual content that will also translate into a difficulty bump in EX and Savage, but the majority of the playerbase won't like that. I'm even more inclined to believe that they'll nerf Savage even further before making any non-high end content harder.

Also to be fair, E7S is leaning towards an EX fight to be honest. That fight's pretty easy even for current Savage.
E8S' add phase is probably a lot harder to heal than that fight.

[Recon1o6]

As just seen in the has anybody quit healing thread, E4s is now doable without a healer. Now excuse me, but that shouldn't be possible until we are at level 90. Not 80 in the next tier!
https://youtu.be/zdDxjXMMWgU

sure, summoners and paladins are horrendously overpowered (especially paladin, so much content they can solo) but this is just ridiculous

Casual content is far too easy now. I went in orbonne yesterday and the unneccessary nerfs to thunder god were noticeable more than ever. Duskblade was failed by my group and did...15k damage? Even worse was the shadowblade bubbles. not just one pair of bubbles overlapped but two. So a 4 stack bleed.
Our whm solo healed it in 370 gear as the ast didn't cast anything other than malefic the entire raid apart from a single helios at the start

Remember Sephirot ex? Nidhogg normal? Tsuki nm? All fights where the healers had to put work in, and two of those fights were touted as being hard but fun across all roles because they had mechanics you had to heal for and still had nice periods to do damage

[PondHollow]

As just seen in the has anybody quit healing thread, E4s is now doable without a healer. Now excuse me, but that shouldn't be possible until we are at level 90. Not 80 in the next tier!
https://youtu.be/zdDxjXMMWgU

Actually, what they are demonstrating is that E4S was doable without a healer before 5.2. That is a Chinese clear. Look at their HP. They're around i470.

Frankly, we need to get rid of healers. Just have support build options, like summoner has a meaningful playstyle option. The healer-targeting mechanics can be adjusted to a transparently assessed support index, just like we have enmity.

[Hysterior]

Frankly, we need to get rid of healers. Just have support build options, like summoner has a meaningful playstyle option. The healer-targeting mechanics can be adjusted to a transparently assessed support index, just like we have enmity.

Feels like it is almost there. Give couple of healing cooldowns to each DPS and you are set since healers almost don't do any GCD healing anymore :/

[Deceptus]

As just seen in the has anybody quit healing thread, E4s is now doable without a healer. Now excuse me, but that shouldn't be possible until we are at level 90. Not 80 in the next tier!
https://youtu.be/zdDxjXMMWgU

sure, summoners and paladins are horrendously overpowered (especially paladin, so much content they can solo) but this is just ridiculous

Casual content is far too easy now. I went in orbonne yesterday and the unneccessary nerfs to thunder god were noticeable more than ever. Duskblade was failed by my group and did...15k damage? Even worse was the shadowblade bubbles. not just one pair of bubbles overlapped but two. So a 4 stack bleed.
Our whm solo healed it in 370 gear as the ast didn't cast anything other than malefic the entire raid apart from a single helios at the start

Remember Sephirot ex? Nidhogg normal? Tsuki nm? All fights where the healers had to put work in, and two of those fights were touted as being hard but fun across all roles because they had mechanics you had to heal for and still had nice periods to do damage

When I saw Dancers get an aoe heal, SMN get an AOE heal I was pretty pissed.

What is the point of healers if everyone else in the game has decent healing / shielding on their own?

[Seraphor]

When I saw Dancers get an aoe heal, SMN get an AOE heal I was pretty pissed.

What is the point of healers if everyone else in the game has decent healing / shielding on their own?

When it comes to AoE sustain, they should really halve their potencies and give it a 'healing received' bonus like Chakra.
But in the case of things like Everlasting Flight's regen effect, they could just make them unstackable.

[Kabooa]

Actually, what they are demonstrating is that E4S was doable without a healer before 5.2. That is a Chinese clear. Look at their HP. They're around i470.

Frankly, we need to get rid of healers. Just have support build options, like summoner has a meaningful playstyle option. The healer-targeting mechanics can be adjusted to a transparently assessed support index, just like we have enmity.

"It's probably summoners, like the 1 healer Shiva."

"Oh look, it's 5 summoners."