Tanking in FF14 question

[shao32]

Also who in their right mind actually believes DRK is easier than WAR? Have you PLAYED WAR???!?!?! Just keep your darn damage buff and save upheavel if IR is coming up. Finally don't infuriate during IR. Congrats! That's the depth of skill required for WAR rotation.

i personally consider WAR less brainless that DRK due you have to constantly pay attention to infuriate to don't overcap the timer, keep special attention to raid buffs to be able to squeeze your inner chaos in it and more involved sinergy inside it with better interplay for my own taste, DRK is basically trow everything under raid buffs aka bloodweapon windows for better indications and spend 50s of mindless souleater combo spam + random bloodspillers/delirium leaving you way more time to don't have to pay attention to your bars and resources due how everything is build to fit the 60s mark.

all being said outside of my personal opinion about those 2 it's true that both WAR and DRK are a shame in terms of complexity and gameplay and it's pretty hilarious how they compete to see who is the most stupid brain dead job of the expansion wich i will say they share that throne pretty fine wich fits pretty well due being the same job with minimun gameplay diferences.

i consider we all can agree that DRK and WAR gameplay are the worst this expansion has bring to the tank role.

[Claire_Pendragon]

cant type it all

Oh I know. But at the same time, if ur summary contains a lot of... "filler?" (for lack of a better word) that doesnt convey the differences, it may give the wrong impression. (Which isnt your responsibility, but its why I decided to comment, which essentially tells others "theres a bit more, even if its slight") Though its true, something liek "has the highest burst" can, and has, attracted people to a job, despite it functionally meaning nothing. To me its like saying the next healer is Lime Green Mage, and it uses aero, stone, and cure spells, but they will just be colored differently. So i try not to "lure" people in with a "difference" that, while there, is just skin deep. (again, I would mention this, back in 2.0-3.0 when fights had more down time, which makes burst DPS more valuable. Along with the old threat system.)

i consider we all can agree that DRK and WAR gameplay are the worst this expansion has bring to the tank role.

challenge excepted!
honestly, people wont like I say it, but there's another job roughly just as brain dead. but unlike DRK or WAR, it actually feels nice, and fun to play, so we dont stop to think about its brain dead playstyle as much... and its GNB.
There is no DoT management, you use it when its ready, which is the equivalent of an oGCD use.
It would be more simple than even DRK, if you didnt want to line up your 50% gauge spender to be in your burst window. Along with your continuation combo.
Neither of those are hard to DO, but they arent something most players think to do. So in short, its "technically" less brain dead, but the execution is roughly~ the same level of difficulty.

[Hierro]

... and its GNB.

I would agree 100%.... if the GNB was playing as OT in a fight with few OT responsibilities or heavy incoming damage. Mechanically speaking, it's true, there's few things to think about aside from NM windows mixed with lenient GCD speed tiers and bloodfest thrown in for a nice and neat burst window each time. BUT, if GNB must weave defensives, it can get hectic when they occur during the oh-so-frequent GF or NM windows, then there's messy clipping or BZ drifting and things just aren't so neat anymore. And once things aren't neat, thought becomes a bigger factor than before.

[Claire_Pendragon]

weaving in windows

honestly a good point, but it also applies to DRK.
Which now brings us to WARs being the job with the least oGCDs to press.
So as off tanks, we agree, they are more equal, but MT DRK and GNB have an extra step over WAR.

[shao32]

challenge excepted!
honestly, people wont like I say it, but there's another job roughly just as brain dead. but unlike DRK or WAR, it actually feels nice, and fun to play, so we dont stop to think about its brain dead playstyle as much... and its GNB.
There is no DoT management, you use it when its ready, which is the equivalent of an oGCD use.
It would be more simple than even DRK, if you didnt want to line up your 50% gauge spender to be in your burst window. Along with your continuation combo.
Neither of those are hard to DO, but they arent something most players think to do. So in short, its "technically" less brain dead, but the execution is roughly~ the same level of difficulty.

If there was not raid buffs that force you to religiously keep everything on check to keep the integrity of the rotation or complety delay you gnasing fang combo and other stuff to re-alineate everything again i could agree, GNB and PLD base they dificulty on this specially to archive the maximun benefic and thats why outside of being better designed with minimun downtimes and more diverse gameplay they are more harder to optimize and feels good to play with then bcs of that.

GNB have the thing of squeeze you defensive skills betwen you no mercy window like Hierro mention yeah and since im always MT it's something i love to do bcs is a extra layer of optimization i have to keep in mind so it's as close i could get the level of complexity and gameplay i use to have with DRK in the past in this lame expansion we as tanks we have to live.

still i miss a lot the raid buff independence DRK use to enjoy basing all his complexity on his own kit and the freedom to dealt with it and no being a slave of raid buffs like it is right now.

[Claire_Pendragon]

raid buffs

a fair argument to make. i personally put that in a second category for maximizing the jobs, but not quite "standard" play, entry level, or base design. but its still important to take into consideration.

EDIT: hit post limit for the day, so cant reply till tomorrow.

[Hierro]

honestly a good point, but it also applies to DRK.
Which now brings us to WARs being the job with the least oGCDs to press.
So as off tanks, we agree, they are more equal, but MT DRK and GNB have an extra step over WAR.

I'm going to disagree on DRK. The only window where double weaving is a big no-no is during BW, but again, it's not as intrusive because it's only half the duration of NM. Weaving becomes a hassle only during pot windows, where all oGCDs are going to align for big damage, and I can only recall E2S as an instance where a tank buster came during such a pot window. Easily handled because those prominent moments are NOT frequent, you can easily pop a cooldown ahead of time.

Since I'm very experienced with MTing as BOTH WAR and DRK, I actually think it's slightly more engaging to play WAR, but I'm going to add the caveat that's only the case when you're trying to capitalize on your HPS potential. Otherwise, if you default to playing like a discount DRK and use RI over NF, yeah it's slightly easier but it's a big waste of potential.

[Leiron]

(1) Why wouldnt u have a steel cyclone ready? I always made sure to have one ready for the next pull. (obviously not holding it if its still only the middle of the fight, but when the fights almost over, save it up for the next pull, no point wasting it on only 2 mobs.)
(2) Berserk did insane dmg, with massive threat. (and during pacify time frame, u had flash as filler till pacify wore off) (They also had another DPS buff, i think internal release, or raging strikes, i forget what it was called)
(3) Vengance also added to your threat, along with all the self healing. (Thrill of battle, Second Wind, Blood Bath, and later Equilibrium replacing second wind)
(4) WAR had the ability to nullify the dmg penalty, leading to even more threat.
Depending on patch/expansion, berserk wasnt always up, so you alternated between it for 1 pull, and unchained for the other. (Unless doing super pulls, then they were usually both up)

WAR always had an answer for threat. PLD did not. FoF + circle of scorn was the best they had. and then flash spam, or tabbed RoH.

Hmm, can't recall. Its been a long time since 1.0 and 2.0 so I cannot recall the times where I would have Steel Cyclone down. Now mind you, not disagreeing that WAR always had an answer to threat, only that there were a few circumstances where threat could be pulled off the WAR at the start of a pull and only by a class literally dropping the highest burst combo in the game with Double flare into fire 3 before it could be yanked back.
I cannot recall anytime you'd go in and pop al your cooldowns for the sake of stealing threat on a pull, but my memory of 2.0 is from aloooong time ago and I was busy with school.

[XeroXelence]

Really love the class balance. SE does an amazing job at it. Play what you want not what people say you should play. Those people should go play WoW. Thats how that game is so toxic.

Over there they dont have fun they download 3rd party crap to monitor everyone's dps then kick people out. Or imagine being kicked because everyone was i500 and you were i490 for a raid that needed to be i440. Game is stupid there.

FF14 is the best mmo out there! Been playing since 2.0

Im almost done with PLD to 80 for my 2nd tank.

[BarretOblivion]

Really love the class balance. SE does an amazing job at it. Play what you want not what people say you should play. Those people should go play WoW. Thats how that game is so toxic.

Over there they dont have fun they download 3rd party crap to monitor everyone's dps then kick people out. Or imagine being kicked because everyone was i500 and you were i490 for a raid that needed to be i440. Game is stupid there.

FF14 is the best mmo out there! Been playing since 2.0

Im almost done with PLD to 80 for my 2nd tank.

Bleh, to heck with balance if it means playing any of a role is unenjoyable. Balance means beans cause having two buttons to mash can be balanced too.