Tanking in FF14 question

[Leiron]

Otherwise the tank had the option to use more threat moves for a DPS loss, or in some cases/expansions, DPS had an option to lower their own threat, while maintaining their DPS (and no DPS loss! No holding back!) The problem is, out of those 2, we know which people complained about more, despite one of the 2 is a DPS loss, and only one of those should seem like the viable option.

You mean...outside of a Blackmage opening up with a double flare into Fire 3.
That is the only time I ever had issues with AOE agro and even then, Flash, Flash, Overpower to rapidly regain agro was a thing even if there was no proper usage of threat mitigation.

[Claire_Pendragon]

You mean...outside of a Blackmage opening up with a double flare into Fire 3.
That is the only time I ever had issues with AOE agro and even then, Flash, Flash, Overpower to rapidly regain agro was a thing even if there was no proper usage of threat mitigation.

It wasnt really an issue, except in small patch cycles, and even then, the BLM goes back to a normal rotation, and u keep spamming ur AoEs and you quickly have hate again. 2.0 was the only cycle that was really bad with threat generation. (really just PLD) But it was still fine. I had my BLM friend go ham, while my MNK friend went ham. I mostly spammed flash, and used stun on the mob my MNK friend was targeting, since he would eventually rip hate using single target, while im spamming flash. (the stun kept him safe till the mob died) If it were any other DPS, actually using AoE, then flash spam was enough. (This was before the nerf to flare)
only a few whiny tanks complained about BLM openers, because they lost hate for 4 seconds, and then got it back again. (Which only PLD really sucked at. WAR, and DRK did just fine. I honestly cant think of a single time I lost hate to a BLM opener as WAR or DRK. They just did too much burst dmg.)

[Leiron]

It wasnt really an issue, except in small patch cycles, and even then, the BLM goes back to a normal rotation, and u keep spamming ur AoEs and you quickly have hate again. 2.0 was the only cycle that was really bad with threat generation. (really just PLD) But it was still fine. I had my BLM friend go ham, while my MNK friend went ham. I mostly spammed flash, and used stun on the mob my MNK friend was targeting, since he would eventually rip hate using single target, while im spamming flash. (the stun kept him safe till the mob died) If it were any other DPS, actually using AoE, then flash spam was enough. (This was before the nerf to flare)
only a few whiny tanks complained about BLM openers, because they lost hate for 4 seconds, and then got it back again. (Which only PLD really sucked at. WAR, and DRK did just fine. I honestly cant think of a single time I lost hate to a BLM opener as WAR or DRK. They just did too much burst dmg.)

For War? UHhh, it depended on whether or not you had steel cyclone ready since overpower alone was not the best for aoe generation.
If all you had was overpower and flash, BLM can rip agro off really fast on the opener.
If you had Steel cyclone up and bursted? Pfft. nothing was stealing agro from you outside of a Provoke from a paladin.

The game is much easier for tanks now than it was back then. As I've been leveling I've been finding there really is no need for me to work on any other tank class besides Warrior. Which is fine, but the strengths and weaknesses of each tank job has been largely made the same. At this point its a matter of aesthetics.
So for now, I main my warrior for leveling, and I'll work on my dragoon after.

Anything else besides Disciple of the hand is just for kicks.

[BarretOblivion]

But the largest differences between the tanks in what they bring to a party, is their raid wide mitigations. (which has subtle differences, despite mostly being close enough to the same thing) Mitigation ends up being what matters most, but functionally in a players decision making process, and what it means for your party.

I\

Negative. Raid wide between all tanks is basically the same except PLD gets one extra. However, in none of the savage fights does this matter because raid wide AoE can be mitigated to the point where it does almost nothing to where healers can just OGCD heal all the damage. The only thing comps consider for raid comp is this:
Do we have a WHM? If yes we can easily run a DRK.
That is litteraly the only thought anyone thinks of for composition.
In TEA this is a bit different as DRK is a clear king in that fight if you don't Living Dead and PLD is preferred for extra mitigation spam that is specific to that one fight. WAR is fine in there but GNB is not very good because of its lacking in personal mitigation making it just unnecessarily harder on Healers.

Also who in their right mind actually believes DRK is easier than WAR? Have you PLAYED WAR???!?!?! Just keep your darn damage buff and save upheavel if IR is coming up. Finally don't infuriate during IR. Congrats! That's the depth of skill required for WAR rotation.

[shao32]

Also who in their right mind actually believes DRK is easier than WAR? Have you PLAYED WAR???!?!?! Just keep your darn damage buff and save upheavel if IR is coming up. Finally don't infuriate during IR. Congrats! That's the depth of skill required for WAR rotation.

i personally consider WAR less brainless that DRK due you have to constantly pay attention to infuriate to don't overcap the timer, keep special attention to raid buffs to be able to squeeze your inner chaos in it and more involved sinergy inside it with better interplay for my own taste, DRK is basically trow everything under raid buffs aka bloodweapon windows for better indications and spend 50s of mindless souleater combo spam + random bloodspillers/delirium leaving you way more time to don't have to pay attention to your bars and resources due how everything is build to fit the 60s mark.

all being said outside of my personal opinion about those 2 it's true that both WAR and DRK are a shame in terms of complexity and gameplay and it's pretty hilarious how they compete to see who is the most stupid brain dead job of the expansion wich i will say they share that throne pretty fine wich fits pretty well due being the same job with minimun gameplay diferences.

i consider we all can agree that DRK and WAR gameplay are the worst this expansion has bring to the tank role.

[Awha]

Tanking in this game at the core has very little variety, but that is mostly due to the structure of the classes. WoW classic is slightly different since fury tanking I do not think was intended to be a main tank spec, but u he game supported that level of creativity and customisation.

Back in the day the difference between a good tank and a great tank provided a noticeable difference in clear times and healing required. I loved healing great tanks, but now to be honest I can hardly tell the difference between a good and great tank. Though that skill divide is something SE was not a fan of I guess which is a shame since as players I feel we should strive to become better and not just accept being a good tank. I use to hate playing with and healing tank stance tanks back in the day it was boring. But sadly they won SE favor.

[Leiron]

I remember back when you had to level up several classes to get their abilities, and how I immediately went and leveled up Gladiator so I could put FLash on my warrior to help with agro generation on AOE since all Warrior had at the time was Overpower. which ate up a lot of TP.
I don't mind the changes I have seen since I came back, I think many of them are good.
I would like to see a bit more differentiation between the tanks in terms of how they mitigate damage, but this is the most balanced method.

[Tigore]

If I was to give all the intricate details of every spell and weaponskill right this instant, the post(s) would likely be too big to absorb. The original poster is starting out the game and first asked if he did more than just pop Tank Stance and spam an AoE like Total Eclipse. His latest question is a concern if the play styles between the tanks are any different. Maybe the big burst will be fun to see since it might look like buzz sawing the enemy during the time. This is also handy if an ally is caged by a mechanic and you want to help burst them out now. If he does want some more details later for the combo bonuses and what exactly each tank mitigation cooldown is, we can help with that. It may be best to let him pick one class first to ask for these details. It is still appreciated that you are adding more to this, Claire.

As for the Gunbreaker part, I simply meant you can't just use Rampart and Heart of Stone in between one off global gap and hope the Continuation buff stays for the next one. You lose that particular Continuation buff doing that unless you purposely stall the GCD usage. It's not impossible to still get both tank buffs up during this time without clipping the GCD much. They just have to be used one at a time for each off global gap. I underlined the GCD skill used.

Gnashing Fang > Rampart + Continuation (Jugular Rip) > Savage Claw > Heart of Stone + Continuation (Abdomen Tear) > Wicked Talon > Blasting Zone + Continuation (Eye Gouge)

This is just in theory assuming you can attack the boss. If the first off global gap had Rampart + Heart of Stone instead, Continuation (Jugular Rip) would fizzle and change to Continuation (Abdomen Tear).

[Claire_Pendragon]

cant type it all

Oh I know. But at the same time, if ur summary contains a lot of... "filler?" (for lack of a better word) that doesnt convey the differences, it may give the wrong impression. (Which isnt your responsibility, but its why I decided to comment, which essentially tells others "theres a bit more, even if its slight") Though its true, something liek "has the highest burst" can, and has, attracted people to a job, despite it functionally meaning nothing. To me its like saying the next healer is Lime Green Mage, and it uses aero, stone, and cure spells, but they will just be colored differently. So i try not to "lure" people in with a "difference" that, while there, is just skin deep. (again, I would mention this, back in 2.0-3.0 when fights had more down time, which makes burst DPS more valuable. Along with the old threat system.)

i consider we all can agree that DRK and WAR gameplay are the worst this expansion has bring to the tank role.

challenge excepted!
honestly, people wont like I say it, but there's another job roughly just as brain dead. but unlike DRK or WAR, it actually feels nice, and fun to play, so we dont stop to think about its brain dead playstyle as much... and its GNB.
There is no DoT management, you use it when its ready, which is the equivalent of an oGCD use.
It would be more simple than even DRK, if you didnt want to line up your 50% gauge spender to be in your burst window. Along with your continuation combo.
Neither of those are hard to DO, but they arent something most players think to do. So in short, its "technically" less brain dead, but the execution is roughly~ the same level of difficulty.

[Hierro]

... and its GNB.

I would agree 100%.... if the GNB was playing as OT in a fight with few OT responsibilities or heavy incoming damage. Mechanically speaking, it's true, there's few things to think about aside from NM windows mixed with lenient GCD speed tiers and bloodfest thrown in for a nice and neat burst window each time. BUT, if GNB must weave defensives, it can get hectic when they occur during the oh-so-frequent GF or NM windows, then there's messy clipping or BZ drifting and things just aren't so neat anymore. And once things aren't neat, thought becomes a bigger factor than before.