The problem with the mentor system

[EaMett]

I'm very interested in what kind of help could be offered by the mentor who now was putting AOE under other players and breaking the mechanics in Arboretum (hard).
Oh, yes, it's just an "one-time experience."

Petty.

Mentors are allowed to learn classes and tunnel vision & make mistakes like everyone else. Mentors are allowed to pull fast and/or big like everyone else. Mentors are allowed to be distracted like everyone, they're allowed to not know everything about the game like everyone else, they're allowed to ask questions like everyone else, they're allowed to be clueless at times just like, you guessed it, everyone else.

In fact this may surprise a lot of people in here but mentors are regular players. And the only purpose the mentor system serves is to allow players to know where and who to turn to if they have a question. There's no guaranty attached to it, the mentor may not know, they may not even feel like answering you if they're busy with something else. This isn't toxic nor is it a failure of the system.

Yes mentors are expected to uphold SE values somewhat more than regular players and I've yet to see any evidence of the contrary (systemic), especially when pit against the behavior of non mentors as a means of comparison. The burden of proof is a thing and falls onto those challenging the status quo. I've also seen a fair share of hasty generalization, non sequitur, and strawman fallacies in this thread coming from those claiming the mentor system is broken.
Enough to stand by what I've said before.

Make suggestions on how to improve the system all you want, it'll benefit everyone. Just don't go making dogmatic claims ad misericordiam

[SoranRigel]

Mentors are allowed to learn classes and tunnel vision & make mistakes like everyone else. Mentors are allowed to pull fast and/or big like everyone else. Mentors are allowed to be distracted like everyone, they're allowed to not know everything about the game like everyone else, they're allowed to ask questions like everyone else, they're allowed to be clueless at times just like, you guessed it, everyone else.

...Mentors are allowed not to know mechanics like everyone else...
Wait a minute, but aren't mentors "experienced players" who "can teach"?
Why are they needed if they do not help, but harm, make elementary mistakes and break mechanics in far from the most difficult duties?
This player had a crown over his head. I can 't figure out what he put it on if he doesn't know the simplest things.

[MomomiMomi]

...Mentors are allowed not to know mechanics like everyone else...
Wait a minute, but aren't mentors "experienced players" who "can teach"?
Why are they needed if they do not help, but harm, make elementary mistakes and break mechanics in far from the most difficult duties?
This player had a crown over his head. I can 't figure out what he put it on if he doesn't know the simplest things.

Found the problem. It's your expectation of mentors that is the issue, not the mentor system.

[SoranRigel]

Found the problem. It's your expectation of mentors that is the issue, not the mentor system.

Really?
Ok, let 's go back to the official definition of "mentor":

Mentors are veteran players who chose to offer their time and experience to help guide new adventurers. To facilitate their assistance, mentors will gain access to a special chat channel as well as a means to easily register for duties and trials with new players.

As a mentor you are expected to actively perform the following:

1. Provide gameplay advice for new adventurers and other players.
2. Be an exemplar for player etiquette.
3. Invite new adventurers to the Novice Network and answer their queries in the chat channel.

In connection with this definition (sorry, it 's not "my expectations") I ask the question again: what can these people teach with crowns on their heads if they don 't know the simplest game mechanics?
These people became mentors because the system allows them to do so.
Because they go to farm recommendations to purchase a beautiful badge and winnings.
Not to help.

[EaMett]

Really?
Ok, let 's go back to the official definition of "mentor":

In connection with this definition (sorry, it 's not "my expectations") I ask the question again: what can these people teach with crowns on their heads if they don 't know the simplest game mechanics?
These people became mentors because the system allows them to do so.
Because they go to farm recommendations to purchase a beautiful badge and winnings.
Not to help.

You can be a mentor in full gear on an unfamiliar class and be tunnel visioning so hard you miss mechanics. Not only can this be a thing but I'm pretty sure every mentor and player knows exactly what I'm talking about, first hand.

I personally can't BRD for the life of me. Keeping my eyes on the procs = eating mechanics consistently. I still enjoy playing it and won't stop because some elitist expects a certain level of play out of me because I'm a mentor. (see what I did there)

[SoranRigel]

You can be a mentor in full gear on an unfamiliar class

On an unfamiliar class 80 lvl, ok.

and be tunnel visioning so hard you miss mechanics. Not only can this be a thing but I'm pretty sure every mentor and player knows exactly what I'm talking about, first hand.
I personally can't BRD for the life of me. Keeping my eyes on the procs = eating mechanics consistently. I still enjoy playing it and won't stop because some elitist expects a certain level of play out of me because I'm a mentor. (see what I did there)

If you 're feeling insecure in your class, a good solution would be not to wear the crown, right?

[Neoom]

You can be a mentor in full gear on an unfamiliar class and be tunnel visioning so hard you miss mechanics. Not only can this be a thing but I'm pretty sure every mentor and player knows exactly what I'm talking about, first hand.

^This, since as someone who used a lot of time to max all classes to 80, I still don't know all of them better than basics of the class. I don't have full rotation or how to play on lvl80 content as that class to the full potential. For example, I play casters 99,9% of the time, mostly healers. I know how all those 6 work and to play them to their max potential on 80. But I can't wrap my head around any of the melee classes no matter how I smack a dummy, but it's fine since everyone can have a main class right? Even mentors. Me having all to 80 doesn't mean I know all the jobs perfectly and will put out the best dps no matter what class I play, it means, I had time in my hand and I like leveling classes. I don't have to know all them, only the ones I play more than often. But I can still go mess around in casual content as a melee and try my best to do well, but I can't be held against a wall and say ''You're a mentor why are you so bad at samurai???''. Everyone will play random classes to mix things up every once in a while, even mentors. They aren't perfect 100% of the time and on all classes they max out, and that is not what they agree on either. Being an example doesn't mean ''Be 100% perfect and know your rotation from start to finish no mistakes''.
Let mentors make mistakes, they're human too, just like everyone else. And before this is taken out of context, I don't mean mistakes as trying to sabotage or purposefully ruin the duty.

[SoranRigel]

^This, since as someone who used a lot of time to max all classes to 80, I still don't know all of them better than basics of the class. I don't have full rotation or how to play on lvl80 content as that class to the full potential. For example, I play casters 99,9% of the time, mostly healers. I know how all those 6 work and to play them to their max potential on 80. But I can't wrap my head around any of the melee classes no matter how I smack a dummy, but it's fine since everyone can have a main class right? Even mentors. Me having all to 80 doesn't mean I know all the jobs perfectly and will put out the best dps no matter what class I play, it means, I had time in my hand and I like leveling classes. I don't have to know all them, only the ones I play more than often. But I can still go mess around in casual content as a melee and try my best to do well, but I can't be held against a wall and say ''You're a mentor why are you so bad at samurai???''. Everyone will play random classes to mix things up every once in a while, even mentors. They aren't perfect 100% of the time and on all classes they max out, and that is not what they agree on either. Being an example doesn't mean ''Be 100% perfect and know your rotation from start to finish no mistakes''.
Let mentors make mistakes, they're human too, just like everyone else. And before this is taken out of context, I don't mean mistakes as trying to sabotage or purposefully ruin the duty.

If you 're feeling insecure in your class, a good solution would be not to wear the crown, right?

Otherwise it turns out that mentors should not know mechanics, should not know their class - they do not owe anything to anyone at all. But the crown is for some reason worn.

[Neoom]

They aren't perfect 100% of the time and on all classes they max out, and that is not what they agree on either. Being an example doesn't mean ''Be 100% perfect and know your rotation from start to finish no mistakes''.
Let mentors make mistakes, they're human too, just like everyone else.

Since you missed this I'm gonna quote myself
Even if I don't know how to play melee doesn't mean I can't help with casters, my help is still help even if I'm not playing the class in the current duty, it doesn't remove my knowledge just because I want to try out different classes sometimes. Mentor's can learn new things too, they can learn new classes too and can't be perfect from the start. But while they're learning they can still help with other classes/dungeons/anything help is needed in.
I can see mentors will never be good enough for you since you expect 100% perfection that can only be achieved with an AI and maybe that's mentors need to be then, humans can't stop making mistakes even if they're ''the elite helpers'' like you name them.

[Miste]

Really?
Ok, let 's go back to the official definition of "mentor":

In connection with this definition (sorry, it 's not "my expectations") I ask the question again: what can these people teach with crowns on their heads if they don 't know the simplest game mechanics?
These people became mentors because the system allows them to do so.
Because they go to farm recommendations to purchase a beautiful badge and winnings.
Not to help.

Even veteran players make mistakes, you are not making any sense...you realize that right?

I raid savage and even I get hit by random aoes sometimes or forget a mechanic and get hit or die. It doesn't mean I don't know the mechanics normally, but distractions happen, forgetfulness happens, mistakes happen.

If I get hit by a ground AoE does it mean I don't know how to dodge it as a veteran player? No, it just means I was distracted, or I just plain messed up, or I lagged. Plenty of reasons for even veteran players to make mistakes for even simple mechanics. People mess up because we are human and humans are fallible.

Go watch some savage or ultimate videos clears and prog. You'll see even the people doing the hardest content sometimes get hit by things or die by their own mistakes for a lot of different reasons.

Perfection doesn't exist. For anyone. Veteran player or not.

If you 're feeling insecure in your class, a good solution would be not to wear the crown, right?

Just because a mentor might not be super experienced on a job they are playing doesn't mean they can't help with OTHER jobs that newbies might be playing, or help with knowledge of mechanics in dungeons etc.

They can still help people with many things, so why turn it off?