The problem with the mentor system

[Illy_Peridot]

It beats the player commendation requirement considering it's a system that absentmindedly benefits healers and tanks and mostly ignores dps players, no matter how good they are.

Good tanking and healing is very easy to notice, dps only get noticed when things don't die fast enough or someone looks at their parser and sees one of the dps pulling ridiculous numbers, or in one-off situations where something happens like in Hades normal where everyone except 1 or 2 people gets hit by life in captivity and they have to watch helplessly as only 2 people are left to break them out.

Heck a lot of people have admitted on here that they just comm the healer/tank and for a dps to get a commendation they have to do something really noticeable like rezzing half the raid or having everyone die and then they finish off the boss themselves.

I mean, the changes already helped weed out the people in it purely for the crown since so many of those sorts have been spotted asking for comms in party chat. And honestly regardless of what you play it's not that hard to amass comms; plenty of people admit to giving the comm to their fellow DPS because they specifically know they don't get them that often. I dunno how much better having people waving crowns around from spamming speedruns of old dungeons dozens of times would be an improvement in the quality of mentors over the comms.

[HeulGDarian]

Do not misinterpret my words, please. I said exactly the following:


Unfortunately, you have missed the words "relevant content".



If can be 2,000 roulette dungeons and trials, or just not uncynced.

Besides the fact that you did say as you pointed out farmed unync ex
Relevant content is basicly savage and super savage oh and ex for like one Day but here lies a problem Relevant is extremely arbitary per individual to a sprout relevant is doing his msq to a hardcore player savage super savage to crafter the market board etc etc etc whats a mentors relevant content the mentor rlt?

[RajNish]

Relevant content is basicly savage and super savage oh and ex for like one Day but here lies a problem Relevant is extremely arbitary per individual to a sprout relevant is doing his msq to a hardcore player savage super savage to crafter the market board etc etc etc whats a mentors relevant content the mentor rlt?

To be honest, I don’t understand what you are talking about. Making a savage is not necessary to help beginners with the basics of the game.

[HeulGDarian]

To be honest, I don’t understand what you are talking about. Making a savage is not necessary to help beginners with the basics of the game.

I said that relevant content is widely used when People talk about savage.
Relevant though is something arbitary
Because different People do different stuff like
A crafter does crafting content and sells on the marketboard
A gatherer simply gathers stuff to sell
Usually crafters are also gatherers
A fisher is completely different from the 2 others cause he has a scavenger Hunt mini game
What about pvpers PvP isnt even on the list
Gold saucer players for as much of a niche there are People Who actually love chocobo racing triple triad and verminion
There are hardcore players savage and raids as relevant content
Blu mage players are giving some life to the old raids
Eureka/BA there are still discords doing them
Furnishing/housing
Hunting
Mount/minion gathering
And even freaking gardening
This is why they didnt make stuff be even harder it is impossible for a small team to know everything and as sorry as i am that you had a bad experience i Will defend the fact that the majority isnt toxic especially when some of the ideas are as pepega as having to deal with 8000> People before getting access to helpfull tools such as mentor rlt and a symbol that sprout can ask question. Can kill novice network though idc they were rude >

[RajNish]

Even if it wouldn't fix the problem 100% I think it could harvest a lot of bad ones out from the system.

Yep, I hope it will work better.

Relevant though is something arbitary

As I said before for PvE mentors it can be following:

ARR, Heavensward, Stormblood and Shadowbringers, including dungeons and trials, same as in the current system.

I do not know what can be offered to crafters and gatherers, because I am not involved in crafting. However, I see now that many achieve the title of craft mentor, raising one crafter and one gatherer to 80 and crafting / gathering 100/300 collectibles, respectively. After the SE raised the requirements to 1,500 recommendations, most people began to farm the crown icon through gathering and crafting, and I think this is a bad trend. I doubt that all these people will rush to help the new player, telling him the details and features of crafting / gathering.

[PyurBlue]

On an unfamiliar class 80 lvl, ok.

It's very easy in a game like this one where you can level without half of your skills. If your roulette luck is poor you might never see content above 70 until you actually hit the cap.

2. Focus on the number of completed dungeons for PVE mentors (2,000 dungeons, for example), completed role quests and completed relevant content.

Obtaining mentor status is already more of a slog than trying to meet some kind of qualification. Eventually, anyone will hit the comm and dungeon requirements. The same would be the case no matter how high you put the requirement and remember that the mentor mount already requires 2000 mentor roulette runs. I don't think people will be scared away from an exclusive icon by 2000 dungeon runs.

Getting mentor should be more about willingness to help and ability than just having enough time in the game.

Heck I would rather they went with a point system where for instance, leveling dungeons are 1 point, 50/60/70 dungeons are 2, level 80 content is 3 points, raids are worth 2 points, trials are worth 2 points, extreme trials are worth 4, savage clears are worth 10 points, ultimates are worth 30 points, etc and you just need x points instead of commendations.

Something like this makes more sense to me than comms, though anyone can still get it eventually as they play more content. I wonder how much work it would take to have a qualification trial for each role at the Smith. Go through a short but moderately challenging battle as a tank, as a healer, and then as a DPS. This would at least try to measure player ability directly and it wouldn't lock out good mentors just because they happened to learn the game quickly.

[3c-33]

So maybe this is just me and the way I think, but every time I've had a negative experience with another player, I genuinely can't remember whether or not they were a mentor, I never checked or felt it was important to remember. I'm not sure why when someone is being toxic, you're mad at the mentor system and not the actual person.

I don't really see how the fact someone has a crown over their head is what turns them into a bad person. They were likely going to do that either way, crown or not, mentor or not. Do I think the fact they can have a crown over their head is a way to boost their ego and make them feel superior? Yes. Do I think these bad mentors can hurt the reputation of the good ones? Also yes. I just don't see how it's a direct cause for the behavior and therefore a reason to shut it down. Do I think it could use some changes to help circumvent these problems? Yes.

Speaking as a more recent player to the game, joining towards the end of stormblood, I have two issues with this system in general, one with the novice network and the other with the icons. Starting with the icons, there's not a very easy way to tell what any of them mean, much less the crown. The ability to set your online status isn't very easily obvious at first which is where you find out what the bulk of them mean (i spent a long time wondering what they all meant as well). The crown is less obvious as it's not there, and actually hidden under an FAQ at the novice network npc, which is easily missable. (I can't check to verify this right now so please correct me if I'm wrong.) I remember being a baby sprout, I was actually afraid of people with the icon as I associated it as a symbol of authority or the elite, or a "pro," someone I would interpret as having no patience for a noob.

For this reason I would love the idea of something like a watering can, I think it appears much more friendly to newer players and makes more sense/is easier to put two and two together (I have a sprout next to my name, they have a watering can over a sprout, they must be here to help me). Still not a perfect solution to the fact some people may not be able to deduce that and the NN npc is somewhat out of the way, but still. Not only do I think this would be beneficial for new players, it would be beneficial for the good mentors as well. Imo, I don't think as many of the toxic superiority complex mentors would bother with the icon if it was that, therefore giving mentors in general a better reputation, I'm sure that's up to debate though. Just what I think, anyway.

Like I personally would be more comfortable using the status if it was that not only because of the bad associations I have with the crown, but because of the stigma that surrounds mentors. I would love to be easily identifiable as someone who is there to help, but I don't feel I have that option as I know having a crown comes with a bad rep + I don't like the actual ideas I associate with a crown in a vacuum.

My other issue is with the novice network, mainly what others have said already: It's invite only. Not only that, but you have the option to automatically decline all future invites, without a way to reverse this option afaik. I got randomly invited to it at some point with no prior warning, a big popup just appears on your screen, and I felt immediately pressured by this and wanted to decline this as fast as possible since I was very socially anxious at the time. I'd have much preferred the game telling me of it's existence if its own volition giving me the option to think about it and work up the nerve to join when I'm ready. I think that would go a long way to making it more accessible to players in general but especially the anxious ones (since you wouldn't even have to ask for an invite.)