The problem with the mentor system

[Packetdancer]

So, disclaimer here: I'm not a mentor, and I don't actively aspire to be one. You don't need a crown to be helpful, right?

But here's the thing...

But FF14 desperately needs a chat channel where someone can ask questions.

This. I cannot stress this enough.

People keep focusing on the dungeon experience of the mentor program, but honestly I feel like that's the less important part of it. In part because the dungeon side of things is the one where mentors—or even just helpfule players—can spot someone who might be struggling and offer help proactively; you can ask in Party chat, "Hey, do you mind if I offer one bit of clarifying advice on the fight?" and then when they say "Sure" mention that it can be easier if—for instance—you tank the final boss of Stone Vigil in the center of the arena and explain why. (I have not yet had someone say 'no' to the "Do you mind if I offer..." query, for whatever that's worth.)

But what I've found is that a number of sprouts don't feel like they have a good avenue to ask questions. And not just to ask questions, but to ask for active help. Not just "Can anyone tell me how to do this?", but "I'm having trouble running this particular dungeon, could someone come along and play guide?"

The NN is meant to be the former—the place to ask questions—and the crown is meant to be the same thing; if you see someone chilling by an aetheryte with the crown, you know they're theoretically open to being tapped and asked for help. But it doesn't seem to be working out entirely like that, for whatever reason.

For my part, I've made a cross-world linkshell on Primal; it started a couple of weeks ago as just a random linkshell of friends and people I've met when rolling through the game, but as it's proven the easiest way to coordinate handing off gear or giving a bit of post-run dungeon advice to someone on a different server who still have questions, various sprouts I've helped out have ended up on it.

And what I've discovered is that it's kind of turning into a de-facto tiny part-time newbie network; newer players can ask things questions on that CWLS and the more experienced ones will answer them -- even if those questions are things like "I'm having a lot of trouble with this content, would anyone be willing to run it with me?"

At least two have said that having that linkshell as a sort of 'life preserver' has made their gaming experience a lot less frustrating and a lot more fun. I think the sprouts need something like that, and those who haven't found a good/active FC—or just who have questions when no one in their FC is on—need one that's global.

If the issue with the NN is that people think the criteria for mentors aren't the right ones or aren't finding the appropriate mentors, then maybe the solution is to rework the criteria. But I don't think completely burning the Newbie Network and mentoring system to the ground is necessarily the best course, because then sprouts end up without anywhere they can reach out with questions if they don't happen to have a really helpful FC.

I already hypothesized one possible alternative, back in one of the other various threads about this; it can be found at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing still. I am under no illusions that it's flawless—or even the right path—but it seems to me that there are still good aspects to the mentor system that should be preserved if there were ever to be changes.

(And of course, SquareEnix is under no obligation to listen to any of us, regardless of what happens in this thread or what anyone suggests, so a lot of this is probably just folks blowing off steam...)

[RajNish]

If the issue with the NN is that people think the criteria for mentors aren't the right ones or aren't finding the appropriate mentors, then maybe the solution is to rework the criteria. But I don't think completely burning the Newbie Network and mentoring system to the ground is necessarily the best course, because then sprouts end up without anywhere they can reach out with questions if they don't happen to have a really helpful FC.

On the one hand, I agree with you, and on the other ...

I saw three MMOs where there was no mentoring system and people asked questions and found help in world chat and in dungeons. SE tried to create a global network for helping newcomers by attracting people who like it. But something is clearly going wrong.

I know that there are good mentors and how they try, but with the expansion of the base of players there are more people who parasitize on the system. They don’t help, they farm either recommendations or a (new trend) craft mentoring for crown, and I personally now see a lot of "mentors" in the dungeons who don’t know the basic rules (don’t stay in AOE, wait until the tank pulls, kill adds as soon as possible).

I hope that in the future the SE will take measures that are not limited by the number of recommendations. The recommendations are not relevant, very subjective and do not reflect anything. People leave groups almost instantly; many of them do not pay attention to the co-players.

What I would like to see in this regard:

1. Replace the icon with something more neutral: a book, glasses, a watering can.
2. Focus on the number of completed dungeons for PVE mentors (2,000 dungeons, for example), completed role quests and completed relevant content.
3. A separate option for reporting on mentors.
4. A working blacklist that will allow you to no longer meet with these "mentors" and other bad players in the roulette groups.

[Snowdove]

The crown icon is not the problem.


1) Some people are just toxic. Having a crown or not having a crown won't change that.
2) It is too difficult for new people to get in contact with someone who may help them because the Novice Network is invite only (unless you are a returnee).


FF needs a world chat so people can get in contact with other people who may (or may not) help.


Maybe the crown system can be reworked so that you don't just need a certain number of commendations, but you CONTINUALLY need a certain number of commendations. So mentors have to keep working to keep their status. Though that would lead to commendation farming, which can be a hindrance in and of itself.

[RajNish]

FF needs a world chat so people can get in contact with other people who may (or may not) help.

Yep, or an open channel for help.

[SoranRigel]

1. Replace the icon with something more neutral: a book, glasses, a watering can.
2. Focus on the number of completed dungeons for PVE mentors (2,000 dungeons, for example), completed role quests and completed relevant content.
3. A separate option for reporting on mentors.
4. A working blacklist that will allow you to no longer meet with these "mentors" and other bad players in the roulette groups.

Good options that will help to contain the appetite of toxic players.
Especially the "working blacklist" because, indeed, not only mentors can be toxic.

But 2,000 dungeons can you also to farm?
What do you mean by "relevant content"?

Of course, it is necessary to get rid of any icons that show "higher status."
I 'm talking about a crown and something like that.

[MomomiMomi]

2. Focus on the number of completed dungeons for PVE mentors (2,000 dungeons, for example), completed role quests and completed relevant content.

Funny thing about this. I have over 300 days of playtime and have not done 2000 dungeons/trials. I do have 3300 commendations, though, so I guess I'm set for the next time they raise that, at least.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Funny thing about this. I have over 300 days of playtime and have not done 2000 dungeons/trials. I do have 3300 commendations, though, so I guess I'm set for the next time they raise that, at least.

I have close to 650 days of playtime, 4000 commendations (I didn't do many dungeons with all pugs for most of 2.x, 3.x, or 4.x, and I leave immediately ) and almost 10000 instanced duties completed.

I definitely meet any requirements they can possibly have for mentor, yet, with the amount of times people have been unresponsive to even the most basic mechanic advice before a fight starts, I rarely offer advice anymore unless people actively use chat.

[RajNish]

I don't think people will be scared away from an exclusive icon by 2000 dungeon runs.

I do not think that a book or a watering can will be as popular as a crown.

Getting mentor should be more about willingness to help and ability than just having enough time in the game.

I understand what you are talking about, and I agree, but we can’t verify this intention in any way. If only there was such an indicator, the world would be perfect.

Funny thing about this. I have over 300 days of playtime and have not done 2000 dungeons/trials. I do have 3300 commendations, though, so I guess I'm set for the next time they raise that, at least.

Yep. As far as I know, when SE raised the number of recommendations, many lost their mentor status.

so if you meet so many people who deserve to be blacklisted, I think something is wrong about you and not the others.

Indeed. Every time when good people meet us, they turn into monsters for some reason. This is kinda dark ancient curse.

It sounds as strange as: "I was never beaten, and I did not contact the police. If you were beaten and you need to contact the police, then something is wrong with you".