Prepulling mobs as healer

[ForteNightshade]

I don't think so considering how tank anxiety is very common. With a pug you can't really say for sure if someone is a very experienced or confident tank, even if they're playing as best as anyone possibly could on a single pack.

Not even checking gear is a sure way to see if someone is experienced or not. I remember a time when my buddies and I ended up with a pug tank who had the absolute best gear you could possibly get in the tier and most of it was from savage, but their tanking...was okay at best. This was surprising considering their gear. Afterwards one of my buddies looked them up in fflogs and it turned out they only had logs as a caster and ranged phys dps.

And no, no one gave them hassle or said anything. We just did the dungeon at the pace the tank pulled. They weren't a bad tank by any means, but they didn't have the skill you would expect from someone with that gear. We felt the logs adequately explained the situation.

You don't need to be a very experienced tank to take aggro. It's literally spamming the same aoe you already should be. If they die as a result of those extra mobs, that's on the DPS pulling more, especially if they already asked someone not to pull for them. Even if they didn't out of nerves, I'd likely tell the DPS to not pull for them myself.

My response was more referring to players who deliberately let someone die because of the aforementioned principle nonsense. It creates far more of a hassle than simply picking up the mobs and either asking the person to not pull ahead of them or kicking them if they continue to do so.

[SamRF]

I don't think so considering how tank anxiety is very common. With a pug you can't really say for sure if someone is a very experienced or confident tank, even if they're playing as best as anyone possibly could on a single pack.

So I recently started leveling gunbreaker which starts on lvl 60, and I think what I did as prep before jumping into first dungeon is a good example of why and how my principles and mentality differs, and why I don't seem to understand your and other's position.

What I did was I practiced both my single target and aoe rotation on open world mobs and dummies until I was comfortable with them, out of respect for DF group. I'm not willing to slow down the whole group just for "learning" the job, because that seems selfish to me.

When I take a break from the game and come back or play a job I haven't played in a while, I always practice solo to get back used to given job so I can perform well enough before I jump into DF.

[MitsukiKimura]

"Most" tanks I've seen will pull entire mobs to boss usually. Though I will get the occasional tank who wants to only pull 1 group of mobs which is fine, I can respect it. Though what I won't tolerate is someone harassing the tank for how they're playing. Even though you can literally spam your aoe ability, some people are still getting the hang of the class or anything.

[Seraphor]

Speaking strictly as someone who plays both roles, if the healer gets ahead of me - I fucked up in some capacity. This goes vice versa for the person I'm healing, so it doesn't much bother me.

You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Having rushed through trash the past, if you only do one AoE before sprinting ahead, 9 times out of 10 a DPS will single target someone and take aggro off you.
So you either stop for an entire GCD to do 2 AoEs, or you have to stop to pick up aggro again.
This causes your party to run ahead of you...

[Elladie]

So I recently started leveling gunbreaker which starts on lvl 60, and I think what I did as prep before jumping into first dungeon is a good example of why and how my principles and mentality differs, and why I don't seem to understand your and other's position.

What I did was I practiced both my single target and aoe rotation on open world mobs and dummies until I was comfortable with them, out of respect for DF group. I'm not willing to slow down the whole group just for "learning" the job, because that seems selfish to me.

When I take a break from the game and come back or play a job I haven't played in a while, I always practice solo to get back used to given job so I can perform well enough before I jump into DF.

Practising your rotation on dummies is one thing. Going into a dungeon is very much another. Perhaps you know the dungeon well, but there are still three variables you can't plan for - the other three people in your PUG. if one of them is going to make things difficult (as you clearly like to do) that creates stress and unpleasantness and confrontation. You may thrive on that. Lots of people don't. Hence my earlier comment about no longer using DF. I don't use it ENTIRELY because of people like you. I run with my Trusts who are all lovely or with my friends (also lovely)

[SamRF]

Practising your rotation on dummies is one thing. Going into a dungeon is very much another. Perhaps you know the dungeon well, but there are still three variables you can't plan for - the other three people in your PUG. if one of them is going to make things difficult (as you clearly like to do) that creates stress and unpleasantness and confrontation. You may thrive on that. Lots of people don't. Hence my earlier comment about no longer using DF. I don't use it ENTIRELY because of people like you. I run with my Trusts who are all lovely or with my friends (also lovely)

I don't think difficulty really increases in the situation I'm talking about in my original post (there's no wipe risk). nothing has to change rotation wise. You don't even have to use defense cooldowns because damage is so neglible. I see what you mean with it being seen as a confrontation that would create stress, the whole point of my post was then to indicate that there's no reason to see it as such in a situation where both tank and healer is redundant. Perhaps it's been a while since you've played an instance like lower ilvl lvl 50/60/70 dungeon at sync so it might be hard to imagine.

I've already admitted to being at fault for not abiding by the community's standards and I will be playing less healer as a result of that (which is totally fine). Alternatively I'll go into dungeons full prepared to get kicked, or I'll just hold back and try to enjoy the art and music when spamming that 1 dps button, if it's a pretty dungeon.

[Alleo]

I don't think difficulty really increases in the situation I'm talking about in my original post (there's no wipe risk). nothing has to change rotation wise. You don't even have to use defense cooldowns because damage is so neglible.

You may think that yet I had still enough runs with randoms where the tank nearly died to single pulls (horrible gear) or where the healer seemed to be confident in handling more yet when big pulls where done we wiped...dont assume the best when you go with randoms. It could simply be that the tank is new, panics when he sees you pulling more and somehow creates a mess. Even without a wipe that is more stress than necessary. All of that for a handful of minutes..

[Nedkel]

the saddest thing about this whole post is that its up to 110 replies (at the time of this post). In most other MMOs this is simply a no-no and the healer (or whoever pulls besides the tank) would be considered an asshole. the post would be flamed and the person posting it would be called all sorts of names until the post is locked by moderators.
but here for whatever reason there is an actual debate about it, with people ACTUALLY agreeing with the original poster.
rethink your point of view ... because you're wrong.

In other mmos a tank pulling 1 group at time when he could easily without any problem take more than that would be kicked from the party or called a noob.

This is all what the entire thread boils down to, into a healer 100% capable of healing everything and tank slowing the team down for no apparent reason.
Hold 2 groups of mobs by spamming aoe and using cooldowns is not rocket science, everyone and their grandma could do it, no one expects 75%+ percintile type of performance from a tank

Ofc i dont support healer pulling on their own or anyone running ahead of tank making it harder for him, however in newer dungeons you are only able to pull 2 packs of mobs at time, sometimes 1, so it should come as a standard for a tank to pull wall to wall considering how dumb current dungeons are. In case of tank pulling everything there is no place for a healer to pull more, because he just cant if a tank is doing his job properly.

[Averax]

Try communicating with your tank before doing their job for them.

[Penthea]

So I recently started leveling gunbreaker which starts on lvl 60, and I think what I did as prep before jumping into first dungeon is a good example of why and how my principles and mentality differs, and why I don't seem to understand your and other's position.

What I did was I practiced both my single target and aoe rotation on open world mobs and dummies until I was comfortable with them, out of respect for DF group. I'm not willing to slow down the whole group just for "learning" the job, because that seems selfish to me.

When I take a break from the game and come back or play a job I haven't played in a while, I always practice solo to get back used to given job so I can perform well enough before I jump into DF.

The difference is I understand your opinion. Your problem is not managing your expectations for the content you're in. Pugging is lottery and most pug content is aimed at casual players who don't do as much homework as some people. I made a long post about this many pages back but it was pretty long so I guess you ignored it. Or you are just completely unwilling to see that not every player is like you, not every player wants to be like you, and some players are simply unable to be like you.

You seem to have a single player mentality in a mmo. Do your roulettes with people you know if you are so incapable of having any ounce of empathy for someone whose situation or opinion even vaguely differs to yours.