The problem with the mentor system

[RajNish]

Why does the 1% bad mentors matter more than the rest? The NN serves its purpose daily to allow experienced players to help novices.

This is not 1%. This is a trend. These are experienced players who play for several years. Some of them have their own FC.

I meet such people in dungeons and raids quite often and write reports. But reports and blacklisting do not guarantee:
1. That they will stop doing this.
2. That I will not meet them at roulette again.

[MomomiMomi]

This is not 1%. This is a trend. These are experienced players who play for several years. Some of them have their own FC.

I meet such people in dungeons and raids quite often and write reports. But reports and blacklisting do not guarantee:
1. That they will stop doing this.
2. That I will not meet them at roulette again.

And how many do you meet that aren't like this? I bet you have no idea, because it isn't noteworthy to get someone who isn't acting like this. Moreover, someone can be a mentor and not be displaying their crown.

[RajNish]

And how many do you meet that aren't like this? I bet you have no idea, because it isn't noteworthy to get someone who isn't acting like this. Moreover, someone can be a mentor and not be displaying their crown.

I already answered in another thread. No more than 10, probably less. People who do not do mechanics, standing in the AOE and pull before the tank. People kicking newbies because they didn't like something. People talking rude and insulting. Sadly, most of them were mentors.

Something about shiny crown, by the way. From Reddit.

[EaMett]

I already answered in another thread. No more than 10, probably less. People who do not do mechanics, standing in the AOE and pull before the tank. People kicking newbies because they didn't like something. People talking rude and insulting. Sadly, most of them were mentors.

In my years on this game I probably played with a good thousand mentors, only a handful of which were an issue. If you keep running into bad mentors, maybe mentors aren't the issue.
Also, so what if a few players farm the crown? It doesn't automatically make them bad mentors. Exacerbated mentors in alliance roulette doesn't mean anything, especially given how hard it is to tell tone over text.
Furthermore, random posts from people on reddit or the forums here also mean absolutely nothing, it's just survivor bias.

The mentor system is absolutely fine as is, NN is fine as is although it may be a little spammy; all questions get answered and mentors regularly go assist sprouts in dungeons etc. Fact is, several sprouts are in this very thread saying it worked great for them.

I wish people could just let this mentorship "failure" fallacy rest in peace.

[SieyaM]

In my years on this game I probably played with a good thousand mentors, only a handful of which were an issue. If you keep running into bad mentors, maybe mentors aren't the issue.
Also, so what if a few players farm the crown? It doesn't automatically make them bad mentors. Exacerbated mentors in alliance roulette doesn't mean anything, especially given how hard it is to tell tone over text.
Furthermore, random posts from people on reddit or the forums here also mean absolutely nothing, it's just survivor bias.

The mentor system is absolutely fine as is, NN is fine as is although it may be a little spammy; all questions get answered and mentors regularly go assist sprouts in dungeons etc. Fact is, several sprouts are in this very thread saying it worked great for them.

I wish people could just let this mentorship "failure" fallacy rest in peace.

So what makes you're experience with mentors more valuable or truthful to the situation than people who have had bad experiences with mentors? Both are just personal interactions with people on their data center, neither seems to have any more fact behind it than another.

[EaMett]

So what makes you're experience with mentors more valuable or truthful to the situation than people who have had bad experiences with mentors? Both are just personal interactions with people on their data center, neither seems to have any more fact behind it than another.

Because unlike many I've actually been keeping tabs since I started. I always take note of who's wearing a crown when I enter content and what people say. Have been doing it since the first couple of months I started playing, 3+ years ago now since I saw a similar post back then and was questioning whether or not I wanted to enter the program. I've played with a good thousand (and that's an underestimation, more like thousands since it was probably around a thousand by the time I even qualified for mentorship 2 years ago) of mentors in that period and the VAST VAST VAST majority of mentors are just silent in content. They don't say anything unless someone asks or there's an obvious issue in the content being run. The reason for this is that often times if you ask others if they want advice they will just say no.
It's absolutely ignorant and ridiculous to claim that a majority of mentors are an issue as many of the people complaining in here or other posts/threads are doing. Full stop.

Survivor bias on this one is strong. People complain about mentors standing in aoes and playing poorly as if mentors aren't allowed to learn new jobs and tunnel vision like everyone else. People complain about players becoming mentors for the crown like there's some kind of correlation between that and being a terrible toxic (to quote others) mentor. Completely unrelated.

Yes there might be some NN with a base of bad mentors on some server that I may not know of, yes there are definitely some mentors that should be stripped of their title. I've witnessed only a handful myself but willing to concede my experience on aether may be a little better than others (little being the key word since I doubt any delta would be significantly wide, though euro servers with diff languages may have it differently). But anyone claiming a majority of mentors are bad, or claiming that the mentor system is full of toxicity should not be taken seriously. And that's a good chunk of people complaining.

Not saying the game wouldn't benefit from a change. Just saying people need to stop crying wolf.

[RajNish]

But anyone claiming a majority of mentors are bad, or claiming that the mentor system is full of toxicity should not be taken seriously. And that's a good chunk of people complaining.

Sorry, but you cannot tell people what to take seriously. Your experience or their own. We do not want to turn a blind eye to the problem, that's all.

Not saying the game wouldn't benefit from a change. Just saying people need to stop crying wolf.

These topics arise regularly, year after year, for several years. This means that there is a problem. The fact that the developers changed the number of recommendations means that they have already tried to solve this problem. We are trying to help them with this, at the beginning of the thread, adequate measures were proposed by OP and other people. You have discounted all of this, calling it a wolf’s cry.

[RajNish]

Moreover, someone can be a mentor and not be displaying their crown.

If some kind person wants to help people and helps them without a crown, please explain to me why we need a crown icon?

[MomomiMomi]

If some kind person wants to help people and helps them without a crown, please explain to me why we need a crown icon?

I never said we needed a crown icon. But the icon's purpose is primarily so that a new player can spot someone and know that they should be open to be asked questions.

But the point I was making is that you may be meeting mentors and not even know it. We can toggle the crown off.

[RajNish]

But the icon's purpose is primarily so that a new player can spot someone and know that they should be open to be asked questions.

People farm recommendations not to help others, but to have a shining icon. The system does not work as originally intended. Both sides suffer from this. But of course, many continue to deny the need for change.

Moreover, the aggression with which some opponents of change often respond to me shows their toxicity quite clearly and only confirms my words.