Can we get choices that really matter and have a effect?

[linay]

I think you quoted the wrong post as your response has nothing to do with what you quoted. Nevertheless:

this is the thing about choices mattering is sure maybe you hate it but its no diffrent than those of us who hate the flat out hippieness of hero story that flat out dismisses everything just because of a set morality or "its wrong" there for you bad you must get destoryed nonsense which is really screwed up honestly.

With choices matter you can decided if you want to keep on with the disimissal nonsense hippie hero bs
or you can choice to take a path outside of that and choice to not only understand where those characters are coming from but also to work with them.

Which, as I've said, would require the writers acknowledging your choice if they were to truly matter, thus creating multiple versions of the story, complicating it in the process.

As for the other thing you said about Alts: there already is a reason to have 20+ alts and that is fantasia cost way to much and you might like multiple races for multi things

that and that is also a real life choice if you want to have 3-5 alts for diffrent story paths thats on you not the system of choice you can be happy with just one of your choices as long as its the choice YOU would make.

Making alts for appearance purpose is not relevant in this case. I'm fine with that.

And it is of course my choice to not experience a story path, but there's a difference between not doing a certain optional quest and not creating an entire character just to see a different version of the story. I'm glad FFXIV, for the most part, hasn't made me choose not to miss out on a certain story just because I don't want to put effort on an alt character.

[Bright-Flower]

Snip.

For the Warcraft thing specifically, here's how it went down.

Early in BFA, there was a horde questline to free Saurfang from prison. Sylvanas, the current warchief, wanted to assassinate him. When the quests were put onto the public test realms for WoW (WoW has those so people who look for it see upcoming story stuff before it's officially released in game), there was a backlash. Some people didn't want to betray Sylvanas, warchief of the horde, and side with Saurfang, who they saw as a traitor.

So Blizzard added in an option to side with Sylvanas.

However, this was never truly a branching narrative. Every time this plot thread continued, 'loyalist' players siding with Sylvanas were given a wink and a nod to 'go along with it' and functionally did all the exact same things the 'rebel' players did. The only difference is that at the very end of the plot, you get an extra little scene with Sylvanas where she goes off to pursue her agenda after abandoning the Horde. And in all likelihood 'loyalist' players in the next expansion wont' get anything but a token line of dialog or two to acknowledge this 'choice.'

[Bright-Flower]

this is the thing about choices mattering is sure maybe you hate it but its no diffrent than those of us who hate the flat out hippieness of hero story that flat out dismisses everything just because of a set morality or "its wrong" there for you bad you must get destoryed nonsense which is really screwed up honestly.

With choices matter you can decided if you want to keep on with the disimissal nonsense hippie hero bs
or you can choice to take a path outside of that and choice to not only understand where those characters are coming from but also to work with them.

As for the other thing you said about Alts: there already is a reason to have 20+ alts and that is fantasia cost way to much and you might like multiple races for multi things

that and that is also a real life choice if you want to have 3-5 alts for diffrent story paths thats on you not the system of choice you can be happy with just one of your choices as long as its the choice YOU would make.

In SHB we definitely come to understand where Emet Selch is coming from.

The problem isn't that the WOL is just so darn unreasonable and won't work with the 'bad guy' but emet selch's plan ultimately involves the WOL's death and/or mutation into a twisted light monster.

Emet Selch's goals and the WOL's are not mutually attainable. ES can only attain his goal by sacrificing the existing worlds. This isn't just a matter of being on a moral high horse.

Reaching out to the other side to work together is something that the WOL and Scions would genreally be fine with if it could be done. They were willing to let Emet Selch hang around during the Greatwood part of the story for example. But working together only works when your goals are mutually attainable. And most of the villains in this game aren't willing to do that. Gaius in ARR wasn't willing to turn away from conquoring Eorzea. Thordan wouldn't be dissuaded from becoming a primal. Nidhogg wouldn't stop his vengeful crusade despite those guilty of killing Rattatoskr being long dead. Ilberd was driven to radical extremes and wouldn't back away from his plans. Zenos doesn't a give a crap about anything but his own 'sport.' Yotsuyu was too damaged and messed up to really be reasoned with except when she briefly had cringey amnesia. Varis seemed reasonable for a moment but then that was thrown away at the end of the parlay secene. Emet Selch and the Ascians want to inflict calamities to kill billions and then sacrifice whatever remains to Zosiark to ressurect 'their' people.

These are not antagonists that can be resaoned with by sitting down and talking things out. And it's not the WOL or Scions fault they're that way.

It's one thing to suggests improvements to a game but you seem to want FFXIV to be something fundamentally different from what it is story wise.

[LolitaBansheeMeru]

It's one thing to suggests improvements to a game but you seem to want FFXIV to be something fundamentally different from what it is story wise.

not diffrent just to play out diffrent instend of softy save the world and dance in the rainbow sunline like pixies ... things can play out that way in fact all of that can be the same for people who truely want that softcoreness that has no depth whatsoever thats cool if it was for you... there are many methods that wouldn't require anything to change but would open up more depth and the most they would have to do is write in 1 extra scene for those who choice to drop the savior bs and be a spy for them then nothing would really have to change outside of them poping up telling you that X thing request you get it and you tell them until the last expansion/last patch then the work of your spyness and lies to the scions shows up

What "I want" (this is a personal view so don't make it more than it is) for once a game company not enforce this morality code that they believe in.
For example what it boils down to is do you morally believe anything justifys the method. Some people might say no but I personally and i'm sure others say yes sometimes 100s of things must end to restore something true.
which that shows in Wow that they using it to enforce this set moral code with there story. Now in this game it feels a bit dismissel than anything...

Its like well X character with X reason doesn't matter because we believe morally that the ends do not justify the means thus we cant allow this character to do what they honestly have the right to do.

Now for the wow example the issue is they put in a false choice not that they put a choice in...

WoWs issue is it gave you a choice to follow her but it didn't allow you because the company wants to enforce their morality that her methods and her path is immoral thus they can't allow it because it might influence the players to think for themself not to what people tell them.

Instend they forced you into 2 factions that are both weak willed and softcored trashy factions honestly ... and that honestly is why I've always hated wow they had a option to allow dks to follow Arthas and the scourge didn't use it and then they repeated it with sylvanas.

You mention single players but honestly what companys do the moral decision games any more are first-person shooters or sci-fi neither of which are really that great to do it in.

Really the only game that does it is DnD fully and it works great...

Now this wouldn't be fundamentally diffrent it would just throw in a option to walk the path that characters like Emet open to you or help Gaius take over the savages of Eorzea and bring order what would be so bad about that other than "we don't want it empire bad we good free wild lands" really also Nidhogg would have just most likely wiped out ishgard and returned ... also Zenos could have been agreed upon similar to DBz Goku/vegeta thing with fighters just having random disagreements and beating each other up randomly through out the story just for the kicks.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Now this wouldn't be fundamentally diffrent it would just throw in a option to walk the path that characters like Emet open to you or help Gaius take over the savages of Eorzea and bring order what would be so bad about that other than "we don't want it empire bad we good free wild lands" really also Nidhogg would have just most likely wiped out ishgard and returned ... also Zenos could have been agreed upon similar to DBz Goku/vegeta thing with fighters just having random disagreements and beating each other up randomly through out the story just for the kicks.

If Gaius had won, Eorzea would be crushed under the heel of the Empire, fundamentally altering the entire course of the story.

Nidhogg was mad with rage to the point that even his father and brother eventually agreed he had to be put down. Even before that, he always hated mortals. He wouldn't have just burned Ishgard and then gone to take a nap. Genocide doesn't work that way.

Zenos doesn't have the warrior pride that allowed Vegeta to develop as a character. Zenos is a one-note psychopath with no motivation beyond fighting the strongest people he can find, for no reason beyond being bored otherwise. He couldn't turn out honorably because he doesn't want to.

Emet-Selch winning would've directly resulted in the WoL becoming a Lightwarden. If turning your character into a near-mindless monstrosity whose very existence is antithetical to all other life doesn't fundamentally alter the story, then I don't know what will.

Also, comparing a video game to D&D is highly unfair. D&D isn't a complete story, it's the framework to tell a story. It's like comparing a bag of flour to a finished cake.

[AngelCheese77]

All I wanted was the game to let me hug Allisae when I saw her again But nope. My char is like a wooden puppet while I’m crying my eyes out.

[LolitaBansheeMeru]

If Gaius had won, Eorzea would be crushed under the heel of the Empire, fundamentally altering the entire course of the story.

Nidhogg was mad with rage to the point that even his father and brother eventually agreed he had to be put down. Even before that, he always hated mortals. He wouldn't have just burned Ishgard and then gone to take a nap. Genocide doesn't work that way.

Zenos doesn't have the warrior pride that allowed Vegeta to develop as a character. Zenos is a one-note psychopath with no motivation beyond fighting the strongest people he can find, for no reason beyond being bored otherwise. He couldn't turn out honorably because he doesn't want to.

Emet-Selch winning would've directly resulted in the WoL becoming a Lightwarden. If turning your character into a near-mindless monstrosity whose very existence is antithetical to all other life doesn't fundamentally alter the story, then I don't know what will.

Also, comparing a video game to D&D is highly unfair. D&D isn't a complete story, it's the framework to tell a story. It's like comparing a bag of flour to a finished cake.

Zenos was basicly kenpachi which doesn't need honor as long as the character is feed fighting battle chances they willbe fine

And hogs rage could have been stablized if we helped him destory ishgard

Gaius could have took over yes but you would still have rebel factions for the goodys

also its not really unfair the story isn't complete until the last word is written ever so its still fair lol and all it is framework with story parts written in.

[gman1311]

All I wanted was the game to let me hug Allisae when I saw her again But nope. My char is like a wooden puppet while I’m crying my eyes out.

Might as well have the character T posing.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Zenos was basicly kenpachi which doesn't need honor as long as the character is feed fighting battle chances they willbe fine

Kenpachi, the character who deliberately handicaps himself in multiple ways to ensure he doesn't kill his opponents too fast? Note that that's canon; he ties bells in his hair so opponents can hear him moving, wears an eye patch that devours his excess spiritual energy to weaken him, uses a dull, rusted sword, etc. Compare to Zenos, who, upon finding out that we've leveled up enough to pose a challenge at Ala Mhigo, merges with Shinryu just to make the fight bigger for no real reason other than his own entertainment. And now he wants to merge with a god and make the WoL merge with another......just to make a bigger fight, for his own entertainment. Zenos is an incredibly flat character.

And hogs rage could have been stablized if we helped him destory ishgard

Leaving aside that it's kind of nauseating how quick you are to propose the annihilation of a city full of innocents, Nidhogg always held mortals in contempt. The idea of taking help from a mortal would've never worked, because he only ever saw them as pawns or slightly-smarter-than-average food.

Gaius could have took over yes but you would still have rebel factions for the goodys

Which would mean writing an entire separate story, which doubles the writing and production time to get it going. And that would mean that we'd still have Lahabrea and the Ultima Weapon around.

also its not really unfair the story isn't complete until the last word is written ever so its still fair lol and all it is framework with story parts written in.

It really is unfair, though. D&D is a tool for you to write your own story; a video game is a story that's already written. It's like if I handed you a pen and paper and told you it was a novel. I like D&D, don't get me wrong, but it's not at all the same as a video game.

[VenKitsune]

For a large company its not that much work hell when I worked on maps or did before it got destoryed on warcraft 3 I wrote it just fine your excuse lazy work because thats what it is this is a company that has 100s of people working on the game its not just 20 people sitting there...

Beside you wouldnt have to show it it could be a hidden goal until the final expansion then it can split end and only effect THE ENDING one ending with the heros lovely doovy hippes and one were we kill them all and restore the worlds togeather it could literaly just have 1 extra line based on the choice that shows up in the characters Inn room with ascian and zodiark talking to them something hell I could do by myself in 4 hours if I was on pc and had mod tools lol so no it wouldn't be that much work for a company with over 100 PEOPLE WORKING


Also you wouldn't have to create two diffrent stages you would have your basic story which is already built in for the good toe hippie story and all you would have to do is create a 2nd scene with character deaths on one side and maybe 2 communcation scenes that would take under 42 hours with their tools lol

Yes when I did maps I didn't have all the fancy tools and advance animation but I still took the basic store my maps had and wrote out endings and show ups for every person who made a request for a choice and I was one person and 2 choices isn't that much work it doesn't even double the amount of work ... everytime I see that I think you haven't wrote out rp plans or even worked on a basic project. For the most part you don't have to change a single thing outside diffrent animation and object/ characters that show up and if you want only if you want you can make npcs say cruel lines if the person is going the darker path but thats just a basic choice. for the most part it would take 3 hours to write out and place the character to pop up for 5 mins to say one line like "good work we will soon cause the rejoining" then fade away like your a secret spy or something lol

LOL making maps for Warcraft 3 is a completely different ball game to writing a story.

It doesn't matter whether there is 20 people or 20,000,000 people on the dev team. At any one time, the story is being written by ONE person, ONE. ONE SINGLE PERSON. If that ONE person would need to spend 80 hours a week writing instead of 40 because 2 expansions prior you clicked a different button, or made an "important" choice, that's huge. It'd literally double the cost for SE and the time between patches because as others have said, you'd basically need to write an entirely new story for each real change or decision.
Yes there are multiple writers working on a patch at any given time, but each one does something different. I imagine for example, not long after 5.2 comes out YoshiP is going to give a writing asignment to one of his lead writers, giving them 6 months to write the story for 5.4, and then he'd give another writer 3 months to finish writing all of the side quests for 5.3, and another writer given 16 months to start and finish the next expansions story, leaving blanks to make room for amendments that may happen in the currently developing 5.x story.
SE can't just make a story complex by throwing more writers at it, nobody can, why do you think some of the best literature ever was written by a single person, not a team?

The only time we may see meaningful decisions to be made in a game like this, would be within the last year of the games life, during the last expansion and even then that may not be one depending on how popular the game is at the time.