Can we get choices that really matter and have a effect?

[Bright-Flower]

I wouldn't say Emet was correct. Not any more correct than the other characters. He was willing to do anything to bring back his world, which meant destroying the current worlds. The people living in those worlds aren't going to stand by and let all they know be destroyed for the sake of his. His position is understandable but not any more so than the protagonists. And let's also not forget. Emet winning would mean the WOL becoming a sin eater monster and helping to bring about a calamity, ending the WOL's story rather than continuing it forward. And ultimately sacrificing the WOL and every other sundered being to bring back his world. In a singular game this could make a good alternate ending. Just like at the end of Breath of Fire 4 when you can choose to merge with Fou Lu rather than fight him. But for an ongoing narrative in an MMO like this, that kind of 'side with the bad guy alternate ending' doesn't work because the story has to go on, and having branching paths adds overhead to the story writing process. At BEST they could feasibly have different outcomes for side characters who leave the story and don't come back to it. Anything as big as 'side with emet selch' is not sustainable in the longterm story here.

Nidhogg's initial revenge may have been justified. But the problem with Nidhogg is his vengeance carrying on so long. 1000 years in an endless war to punish Ishgard over and over again. Even after the people who committed the crime he's angry about have been gone for hundreds of years. Nidhogg lost any justification when he went from punishing the guilty to punishing everyone generation after generation.

[linay]

As a SWTOR player, I don't really care for "choices that matter" because, to me, it only matters if it affects future events, which means that the writers have to tell different versions of the story for each player choice and it gets too complicated for my taste (plus, I'll have the urge to create alts to see different versions of the story, which I feel is the opposite of ffxiv's strength of playing as one character).

I do agree that it's probably better to not have choices at all if they're inconsequential, but the different responses are fun to see on their own, so I'm ok with them in general.

[splinter1545]

I think it would be difficult to do on a grand scale, but I personally wouldn't mind our choices effecting quests in a minor way, such as skipping an objective or so. Would make some of the filler quests more bearable if I could somehow make them shorter.

In terms of the grander scale of things, it can still work but then it would basically be like a Telltale game in which you think your choices really matter but in reality they don't. The events that HAVE to happen either happen earlier or later, but will still happen. Now, they can do 2 branching storylines (which would make NG+ more appealing to the general userbase) that ends the same way, so something like the canon storyline (what we have now) and a anti-hero storyline or something similar. But due to how ambitious this could be, it will only really be used in major expansion drops, but the patches can reference whatever choices you picked on your prior run through it (rather it be the initial run or a NG+ one).

[linay]

In terms of the grander scale of things, it can still work but then it would basically be like a Telltale game in which you think your choices really matter but in reality they don't.

Ooh, I think I would hate that the most as now I would think that the story(teller) is lying to me. If it matters, then it should matter, if it doesn't, then just make it obvious as well.

[LolitaBansheeMeru]

Ooh, I think I would hate that the most as now I would think that the story(teller) is lying to me. If it matters, then it should matter, if it doesn't, then just make it obvious as well.

this is the thing about choices mattering is sure maybe you hate it but its no diffrent than those of us who hate the flat out hippieness of hero story that flat out dismisses everything just because of a set morality or "its wrong" there for you bad you must get destoryed nonsense which is really screwed up honestly.

With choices matter you can decided if you want to keep on with the disimissal nonsense hippie hero bs
or you can choice to take a path outside of that and choice to not only understand where those characters are coming from but also to work with them.

As for the other thing you said about Alts: there already is a reason to have 20+ alts and that is fantasia cost way to much and you might like multiple races for multi things

that and that is also a real life choice if you want to have 3-5 alts for diffrent story paths thats on you not the system of choice you can be happy with just one of your choices as long as its the choice YOU would make.

[linay]

I think you quoted the wrong post as your response has nothing to do with what you quoted. Nevertheless:

this is the thing about choices mattering is sure maybe you hate it but its no diffrent than those of us who hate the flat out hippieness of hero story that flat out dismisses everything just because of a set morality or "its wrong" there for you bad you must get destoryed nonsense which is really screwed up honestly.

With choices matter you can decided if you want to keep on with the disimissal nonsense hippie hero bs
or you can choice to take a path outside of that and choice to not only understand where those characters are coming from but also to work with them.

Which, as I've said, would require the writers acknowledging your choice if they were to truly matter, thus creating multiple versions of the story, complicating it in the process.

As for the other thing you said about Alts: there already is a reason to have 20+ alts and that is fantasia cost way to much and you might like multiple races for multi things

that and that is also a real life choice if you want to have 3-5 alts for diffrent story paths thats on you not the system of choice you can be happy with just one of your choices as long as its the choice YOU would make.

Making alts for appearance purpose is not relevant in this case. I'm fine with that.

And it is of course my choice to not experience a story path, but there's a difference between not doing a certain optional quest and not creating an entire character just to see a different version of the story. I'm glad FFXIV, for the most part, hasn't made me choose not to miss out on a certain story just because I don't want to put effort on an alt character.

[Bright-Flower]

this is the thing about choices mattering is sure maybe you hate it but its no diffrent than those of us who hate the flat out hippieness of hero story that flat out dismisses everything just because of a set morality or "its wrong" there for you bad you must get destoryed nonsense which is really screwed up honestly.

With choices matter you can decided if you want to keep on with the disimissal nonsense hippie hero bs
or you can choice to take a path outside of that and choice to not only understand where those characters are coming from but also to work with them.

As for the other thing you said about Alts: there already is a reason to have 20+ alts and that is fantasia cost way to much and you might like multiple races for multi things

that and that is also a real life choice if you want to have 3-5 alts for diffrent story paths thats on you not the system of choice you can be happy with just one of your choices as long as its the choice YOU would make.

In SHB we definitely come to understand where Emet Selch is coming from.

The problem isn't that the WOL is just so darn unreasonable and won't work with the 'bad guy' but emet selch's plan ultimately involves the WOL's death and/or mutation into a twisted light monster.

Emet Selch's goals and the WOL's are not mutually attainable. ES can only attain his goal by sacrificing the existing worlds. This isn't just a matter of being on a moral high horse.

Reaching out to the other side to work together is something that the WOL and Scions would genreally be fine with if it could be done. They were willing to let Emet Selch hang around during the Greatwood part of the story for example. But working together only works when your goals are mutually attainable. And most of the villains in this game aren't willing to do that. Gaius in ARR wasn't willing to turn away from conquoring Eorzea. Thordan wouldn't be dissuaded from becoming a primal. Nidhogg wouldn't stop his vengeful crusade despite those guilty of killing Rattatoskr being long dead. Ilberd was driven to radical extremes and wouldn't back away from his plans. Zenos doesn't a give a crap about anything but his own 'sport.' Yotsuyu was too damaged and messed up to really be reasoned with except when she briefly had cringey amnesia. Varis seemed reasonable for a moment but then that was thrown away at the end of the parlay secene. Emet Selch and the Ascians want to inflict calamities to kill billions and then sacrifice whatever remains to Zosiark to ressurect 'their' people.

These are not antagonists that can be resaoned with by sitting down and talking things out. And it's not the WOL or Scions fault they're that way.

It's one thing to suggests improvements to a game but you seem to want FFXIV to be something fundamentally different from what it is story wise.

[LolitaBansheeMeru]

It's one thing to suggests improvements to a game but you seem to want FFXIV to be something fundamentally different from what it is story wise.

not diffrent just to play out diffrent instend of softy save the world and dance in the rainbow sunline like pixies ... things can play out that way in fact all of that can be the same for people who truely want that softcoreness that has no depth whatsoever thats cool if it was for you... there are many methods that wouldn't require anything to change but would open up more depth and the most they would have to do is write in 1 extra scene for those who choice to drop the savior bs and be a spy for them then nothing would really have to change outside of them poping up telling you that X thing request you get it and you tell them until the last expansion/last patch then the work of your spyness and lies to the scions shows up

What "I want" (this is a personal view so don't make it more than it is) for once a game company not enforce this morality code that they believe in.
For example what it boils down to is do you morally believe anything justifys the method. Some people might say no but I personally and i'm sure others say yes sometimes 100s of things must end to restore something true.
which that shows in Wow that they using it to enforce this set moral code with there story. Now in this game it feels a bit dismissel than anything...

Its like well X character with X reason doesn't matter because we believe morally that the ends do not justify the means thus we cant allow this character to do what they honestly have the right to do.

Now for the wow example the issue is they put in a false choice not that they put a choice in...

WoWs issue is it gave you a choice to follow her but it didn't allow you because the company wants to enforce their morality that her methods and her path is immoral thus they can't allow it because it might influence the players to think for themself not to what people tell them.

Instend they forced you into 2 factions that are both weak willed and softcored trashy factions honestly ... and that honestly is why I've always hated wow they had a option to allow dks to follow Arthas and the scourge didn't use it and then they repeated it with sylvanas.

You mention single players but honestly what companys do the moral decision games any more are first-person shooters or sci-fi neither of which are really that great to do it in.

Really the only game that does it is DnD fully and it works great...

Now this wouldn't be fundamentally diffrent it would just throw in a option to walk the path that characters like Emet open to you or help Gaius take over the savages of Eorzea and bring order what would be so bad about that other than "we don't want it empire bad we good free wild lands" really also Nidhogg would have just most likely wiped out ishgard and returned ... also Zenos could have been agreed upon similar to DBz Goku/vegeta thing with fighters just having random disagreements and beating each other up randomly through out the story just for the kicks.

[AngelCheese77]

All I wanted was the game to let me hug Allisae when I saw her again But nope. My char is like a wooden puppet while I’m crying my eyes out.

[gman1311]

All I wanted was the game to let me hug Allisae when I saw her again But nope. My char is like a wooden puppet while I’m crying my eyes out.

Might as well have the character T posing.