Ast cards 6.0 rework

[Crushnight]

Which has what to do with what? It was bad bow mage, then more bow mage, now it's not bow mage at all.

Everything you said applied to Bow mage, the devs were content with it, knew people were unhappy while others were happy, just buffed it to keep people wanting it (remember meta for creator was nin,drg,brd,mch for dps) then completely scrapped the entire idea of bow mage for 4.0 brd.

The negative voices changed that brd direction. If you all like to keep current ast system for beyond 5.X I highly suggest making positive threads for it (expect negative people in them as public forum) to better the chances if the memo gets over that 90%(random ass pull I have no figures nor does anyone) of vocal asts are unhappy with card system what do you think be up to the changemorphophier come next revamp/rework.

Straight up same thing can happen to ast only 6.0 will tell

[MitsukiKimura]

They aren't going to revert anything.

I know that.

And plugging your ears and pretending like you don't know that doesn't do you any favors.

We'll just have to see between now and the next expansion then won't we

[Malmstrom]

Everything you said applied to Bow mage, the devs were content with it, knew people were unhappy while others were happy, just buffed it to keep people wanting it (remember meta for creator was nin,drg,brd,mch for dps) then completely scrapped the entire idea of bow mage for 4.0 brd.

The negative voices changed that brd direction. If you all like to keep current ast system for beyond 5.X I highly suggest making positive threads for it (expect negative people in them as public forum) to better the chances if the memo gets over that 90%(random ass pull I have no figures nor does anyone) of vocal asts are unhappy with card system what do you think be up to the changemorphophier come next revamp/rework.

Straight up same thing can happen to ast only 6.0 will tell

I could be a bit hazy on the details, but if I recall correctly (and I'm sure I don't)...

Bard was mobile like it is now until what, 52? Then it got that thing that added cast times to all its shots and increased the potency of them. There may have been some shots that required the stance (I don't remember now) but you still had the option of turning it off to sacrifice damage for mobility. The mobile aspect of Bard was never completely scrapped. Eventually, yes, they removed that stand still shot timer skill thing (I cannot for the life of me remember what it was called) and adjusted the potencies to make up for it, but that's it. That's not a revert. That's not scrapping a whole system and changing it almost completely. They took what was still there and modified it.

The card system, however, got a straight up overhaul. Cards were changed, seals were added, spells were removed. Going to the old system wouldn't be as simple as removing one skill and adjusting potencies.

It would be a revert to a previous iteration of the kit, and THAT is the part that isn't going to happen.

[Rai_Takara]

I put that out as proof of how the devs can alter their state of mind after a period of time.

Remember 3.X debacle with ast going from undertuned to overtuned, yea history is repeating itself again, if Diurnal ast gets any buff outside mp for 5.2, i think you will need to face it that the devs actually have no clue what to do and are just sticking with whatever because they don't understand the very thing they are designing(1 nuke spam for 60% of casts in ultimate raids sounds fun right).

You know what I'll happily eat my words if that doesn't happen but we will see.

1 nuke spam has been pretty much been a thing for healers for a long time though. That's kind of the FFXIV staple at this point. But that's not an AST thing, that's just healers in this game.

Everything you said applied to Bow mage, the devs were content with it, knew people were unhappy while others were happy, just buffed it to keep people wanting it (remember meta for creator was nin,drg,brd,mch for dps) then completely scrapped the entire idea of bow mage for 4.0 brd.

The negative voices changed that brd direction. If you all like to keep current ast system for beyond 5.X I highly suggest making positive threads for it (expect negative people in them as public forum) to better the chances if the memo gets over that 90%(random ass pull I have no figures nor does anyone) of vocal asts are unhappy with card system what do you think be up to the changemorphophier come next revamp/rework.

Straight up same thing can happen to ast only 6.0 will tell

The thing with bow mage was that it was a different issue. There was nothing wrong with the ARR version of BRD that was changed in HW. That's why going back to it is no issue. This is not the case with AST and their HW/SB iteration of cards. They cannot go back to it as consistency for buffs is mandatory. Instead of being negative on the cards, which honestly there's nothing wrong with, I would be more vocal on improving the seal system. It has great potential.

If the issue is that cards (which really translates to buffing) doesn't feel great. Then perhaps look into maybe having divination be more frequent? Or perhaps additional effects to divination? For example, Two Blues and One Red, You get 6% damage bonus + 10% party mitigation. Or all yellows, You get 6% damage bonus + MP refresh. See the pattern? No matter what divination would give 6% damage plus another beneficial effect and since it's on a 2 min timer, you can more or less guarantee what buff to use at those intervals. Seals being a kind of mudra combination system would give a lot of buff options without compromising the damage component.

Give SE ideas to have consistent buffs with the card/seal system, I'm all for it. However, going back to RNG buffs will just not work anymore with how fine tuned SE wants balance.

[MitsukiKimura]

1 nuke spam has been pretty much been a thing for healers for a long time though. That's kind of the FFXIV staple at this point. But that's not an AST thing, that's just healers in this game.



The thing with bow mage was that it was a different issue. There was nothing wrong with the ARR version of BRD that was changed in HW. That's why going back to it is no issue. This is not the case with AST and their HW/SB iteration of cards. They cannot go back to it as consistency for buffs is mandatory. Instead of being negative on the cards, which honestly there's nothing wrong with, I would be more vocal on improving the seal system. It has great potential.

If the issue is that cards (which really translates to buffing) doesn't feel great. Then perhaps look into maybe having divination be more frequent? Or perhaps additional effects to divination? For example, Two Blues and One Red, You get 6% damage bonus + 10% party mitigation. Or all yellows, You get 6% damage bonus + MP refresh. See the pattern? No matter what divination would give 6% damage plus another beneficial effect and since it's on a 2 min timer, you can more or less guarantee what buff to use at those intervals. Seals being a kind of mudra combination system would give a lot of buff options without compromising the damage component.

Give SE ideas to have consistent buffs with the card/seal system, I'm all for it. However, going back to RNG buffs will just not work anymore with how fine tuned SE wants balance.

Those Divination ideas wouldn't work. If they don't want to give us our MP card refresh back then draw needs to have an MP regain of 500 each time we use it. Each healer has a gimmick to where using a part of it's rotation gives it MP, this would allow it also. Core feedback from a lot of AST is the cards don't feel rewarding nor fun to use. I don't blame them, because you don't feel like you're contributing to anything outside of a third party program to notice. It's already annoying enough with the seal concept that I'm actually starting to despise it. I don't care if they don't revert back to the old ways, I just want anything else than this bland card system that is quite shockingly awful every time I touch it.

[Rai_Takara]

Those Divination ideas wouldn't work. If they don't want to give us our MP card refresh back then draw needs to have an MP regain of 500 each time we use it. Each healer has a gimmick to where using a part of it's rotation gives it MP, this would allow it also. Core feedback from a lot of AST is the cards don't feel rewarding nor fun to use. I don't blame them, because you don't feel like you're contributing to anything outside of a third party program to notice. It's already annoying enough with the seal concept that I'm actually starting to despise it. I don't care if they don't revert back to the old ways, I just want anything else than this bland card system that is quite shockingly awful and disgusting every time I touch it.

MP refresh on draw is a good idea and should be something the AST should have as another source of MP.

As for the cards, that's really hard to do. TP is gone, MP is strictly a healer thing now, Arrow was hated. That just leaves Balance, spear, and bole. Either spear or balance would be stronger and thereby making the other card less valuable and wanted. Leaving just bole which is technically a damage cards because it means more damage from healers, but without time extensions, its uses are limited, if they exist. I don't have a better idea, but I can see why the previous iteration of cards won't work currently. Which is why I think the seal system might help AST keep it's RNG but also comply with the necessities of a healer and that I think the focus should be on how to improve that system than opting to remove it altogether.

[Gemina]

Snip from page 1.

So just revert it back to 4.0 then, yes? I know I am often a voice of opposition, but I come in peace. That is a genuine question.

It is extremely unfortunate that the enjoyment was stripped from one, if not your favorite job. I do know how that feels, and it was a disheartening to the point that I left that particular mmo. Thing is, when I really thought about it back then, I wondered if simply reverting the job back to what it was would have fixed things. I realized it wouldn't have. The damage was already kind of done. It also wouldn't have worked any more in the way the battle design was changed. I wanted to mention this because as unlikely as it is that the old card system will return; if it did, how good would this actually be? You'd have to think about things in a way that DPS are functioning like now, and what all the AoE buffs you propose would be doing.

As difficult as it has been, what - if anything other than the return of the old card system would have you gravitate towards the job again, and take it out of retirement? If you take the card system away, is there anything you feel AST needs that current or new card system can take advantage of? How about AST's high APM? How do you feel about cards having longer draw times, but much more potent and different effects? How about putting cards on the GCD? These are not really suggestions, but just some haymakers to see if there is anything that stimulates the brain. But if we assume the old system will not return, and the current isn't enjoyable. The next alternative is something entirely new.

[HyoMinPark]

Which has what to do with what? It was bad bow mage, then more bow mage, now it's not bow mage at all.

What do you mean? ARR BRD wasn’t a bowmage. Only HW BRD was bowmage. Then SB BRD wasn’t a bowmage anymore. There was no “bad bowmage, then more bad bowmage”. It was just one expansion worth of that iteration of BRD.

Crushnight’s point is that they can go back on “old systems”, and have done it in the past—they did it with BRD, so hence his example. BRD was completely overhauled going from HW to SB. Repertoire and the current song system did not exist prior to 4.0.

[MitsukiKimura]

So just revert it back to 4.0 then, yes? I know I am often a voice of opposition, but I come in peace. That is a genuine question.

It is extremely unfortunate that the enjoyment was stripped from one, if not your favorite job. I do know how that feels, and it was a disheartening to the point that I left that particular mmo. Thing is, when I really thought about it back then, I wondered if simply reverting the job back to what it was would have fixed things. I realized it wouldn't have. The damage was already kind of done. It also wouldn't have worked any more in the way the battle design was changed. I wanted to mention this because as unlikely as it is that the old card system will return; if it did, how good would this actually be? You'd have to think about things in a way that DPS are functioning like now, and what all the AoE buffs you propose would be doing.

As difficult as it has been, what - if anything other than the return of the old card system would have you gravitate towards the job again, and take it out of retirement? If you take the card system away, is there anything you feel AST needs that current or new card system can take advantage of? How about AST's high APM? How do you feel about cards having longer draw times, but much more potent and different effects? How about putting cards on the GCD? These are not really suggestions, but just some haymakers to see if there is anything that stimulates the brain. But if we assume the old system will not return, and the current isn't enjoyable. The next alternative is something entirely new.

It was my favorite job, now I can hardly stand to even look at it. Honestly at this point they could remove the entire card gimmick and I wouldn't miss it. I don't got anything else to say to it. That's how I feel.

[Malmstrom]

What do you mean? ARR BRD wasn’t a bowmage. Only HW BRD was bowmage. Then SB BRD wasn’t a bowmage anymore. There was no “bad bowmage, then more bad bowmage”. It was just one expansion worth of that iteration of BRD.

Crushnight’s point is that they can go back on “old systems”, and have done it in the past—they did it with BRD, so hence his example. BRD was completely overhauled going from HW to SB. Repertoire and the current song system did not exist prior to 4.0.

You are correct, and I had to go back and look at an old video because I could not for the life of me think about ARR BRD. I started about two months before HW dropped, so sorry on that particular comment. However, my later reply still stands: They didn't "overhaul" bard when they took away Repertoire. They removed it and adjusted potencies to compensate. The mobile bard still existed, so there wasn't anything to "revert" to. There's a pretty big difference between that and the card system revamp.

MP is strictly a healer thing now

DRK, PLD, BLM, RDM, SMN, WHM, AST, SCH

Nearly half the jobs still use MP.

Not that I'm arguing for Ewer, just stating a general fact.