Ast cards 6.0 rework

[Malmstrom]

Bow mage says hi o/

Which has what to do with what? It was bad bow mage, then more bow mage, now it's not bow mage at all.

[HyoMinPark]

Which has what to do with what? It was bad bow mage, then more bow mage, now it's not bow mage at all.

What do you mean? ARR BRD wasn’t a bowmage. Only HW BRD was bowmage. Then SB BRD wasn’t a bowmage anymore. There was no “bad bowmage, then more bad bowmage”. It was just one expansion worth of that iteration of BRD.

Crushnight’s point is that they can go back on “old systems”, and have done it in the past—they did it with BRD, so hence his example. BRD was completely overhauled going from HW to SB. Repertoire and the current song system did not exist prior to 4.0.

[Malmstrom]

What do you mean? ARR BRD wasn’t a bowmage. Only HW BRD was bowmage. Then SB BRD wasn’t a bowmage anymore. There was no “bad bowmage, then more bad bowmage”. It was just one expansion worth of that iteration of BRD.

Crushnight’s point is that they can go back on “old systems”, and have done it in the past—they did it with BRD, so hence his example. BRD was completely overhauled going from HW to SB. Repertoire and the current song system did not exist prior to 4.0.

You are correct, and I had to go back and look at an old video because I could not for the life of me think about ARR BRD. I started about two months before HW dropped, so sorry on that particular comment. However, my later reply still stands: They didn't "overhaul" bard when they took away Repertoire. They removed it and adjusted potencies to compensate. The mobile bard still existed, so there wasn't anything to "revert" to. There's a pretty big difference between that and the card system revamp.

MP is strictly a healer thing now

DRK, PLD, BLM, RDM, SMN, WHM, AST, SCH

Nearly half the jobs still use MP.

Not that I'm arguing for Ewer, just stating a general fact.

[YusiKha]

MP is strictly a healer thing now

I can see what you meant by that, but the truer statement would be:

MP restoration is now self-only.

But then again, healers are the only class that actually uses mana as ‘mana’, since others’ is either a fluctuating resource bar (BLM, DRK, PLD) or a nonissue outside of mass-raising (SMN, RDM)

[HyoMinPark]

You are correct, and I had to go back and look at an old video because I could not for the life of me think about ARR BRD. I started about two months before HW dropped, so sorry on that particular comment. However, my later reply still stands: They didn't "overhaul" bard when they took away Repertoire. They removed it and adjusted potencies to compensate. The mobile bard still existed, so there wasn't anything to "revert" to. There's a pretty big difference between that and the card system revamp.

You are still incorrect.

Repertoire was an entirely new concept in 4.0 and beyond. It did not exist in ARR or in HW. The songs in ARR and HW also did not function in any way, shape, or form as they do now (e.g., as any kind of rotation or as a passive buff—Mage’s Ballad was MP refresh prior to SB and Army’s Paeon was TP refresh: and both cost the BRD 10% of their personal damage to use. The Wanderer’s Minuet didn’t exist in ARR, and was a stance in HW that gave cast times and +30% personal damage, as well as access to Empyreal Arrow and Iron Jaws). Repertoire hasn’t been taken away in ShB—it is just flat rate instead of flexibly scaling depending on the BRD’s critical hit rate (which served to make the job less interesting, in my opinion, because it removed quite a bit of IJ optimization).

BRD SB rework was literally exactly like the card system overhaul they did to AST. SB BRD played differently from any iteration of BRD prior, and its main gimmick became a song rotation with reaction to procs caused by critical hit ticks on DoTs (and subsequently paying extra attention to buffs that would increase that critical hit chance, and snapshotting them onto the DoTs for more damage). Before, the only element of that that existed was Bloodletter had a 50% chance to reset once you gained the old River of Blood trait, and the only “rotation” BRD had was a personal buff rotation, since they could stack 4 different buffs in ARR/HW via cross-class (Raging Strikes, Internal Release, Hawk’s Eye, and Blood for Blood).

TL ; DR — ARR BRD was turned into a bowmage in HW. And HW BRD was overhauled into SB BRD, which was a more interesting version of current BRD. ShB is basically the same as SB BRD but with less nuance to it. They can completely overhaul jobs and go back on implemented systems. They did it with BRD (and to MCH, actually—since it was designed with cast times in mind, and those were removed in SB), so it is possible that they will do it with AST. Especially given all the negative feedback surrounding the cards. That’s what made them change bowmage.

[Malmstrom]

Karate-snip

Okay hang on, two seconds. Since I don't BRD all day every day (I used to, and quite a bit so back in HW and SB), I have definitely gotten the names of the skills mixed up. The Wanderer's Minuet was the name of the skill I couldn't remember. Me calling it Repertoire was an honest mistake. I'm aware that the songs did not used to function as they did in 4.0, but that was an addition to an already existing kit, which was the basis of my point. "Bow mage" was because of Wanderer's, and when they removed it and buffed the potencies to compensate that can hardly be considered scrapping the old mechanic and re-doing it like the card system. Yes, they added the song mechanics, but that wasn't a reversion of any kind.

BRD and MCH were overhauled, sure, but a revert it was not.

I'm not saying AST can't or won't get the same treatment, but a reversion to the previous card system? No.


- I apologize for the confusion. It was my own lack of knowing skill names that did it. I swear I hardly even know the skill names of the jobs I play the most. The truth is I learn what they do and know what button they are, and whenever I read a guide or thread about a job I regularly play, I have to look up whatever skill people are talking about, especially when they abbreviate it.

[Rai_Takara]

DRK, PLD, BLM, RDM, SMN, WHM, AST, SCH

Nearly half the jobs still use MP.

Not that I'm arguing for Ewer, just stating a general fact.

Right, but iirc, I think only healers need the MP from Lucid (and at that, especially AST). Every other job is functional without it. Assuming no deaths of course, because designing a job based on recovery and balancing it as such is never a good idea (like RDM atm). So really the old ewer wouldn't be much use for a good majority of the time.