Main Scenario Roulette skip

[Iscah]

No, what I'm really saying is: axe garbage content from the game, and attach rewards to activities that possess a modicum of intrinsic fun. I think it's betrays bad design when you have to bribe players into doing certain things in game that they would not, under any circumstances (I understand that this is an MMO, so some enticement is always needed for any piece of content) do otherwise. But hey, if you insist on attaching rewards to garbage content instead of good content, then more power to ya.

While it's a fair argument to make for newer content (eg. Eureka and particularly the fact that they're apparently doing it again despite very mixed reactions to the first one) the MSQ roulette dungeons seem to be more of an early mistake that they're stuck with. They clearly conceived if it as an epic finale to the story - as they might implement for a single-player RPG - and failed to consider the issue of queue times for "latecomers" who still need a party of eight to enter this otherwise-dead content.

The roulette and rewards aren't implemented because the level is something intended to be run repeatedly, but because they realised that to ensure new players are able to do it at all, they need old players in there and regularly queuing for it - and they need to be incentivised to do it, because they wouldn't choose to otherwise. It's patching up a mistake rather than designing major repeatable content.

The rewards aren't there to make the roulette a featured activity, they're compensation for helping new players through this acknowledged-to-be-badly-designed content - keeping the queue flowing for them whether they're directly in your party or not.

[Bright-Flower]

While it's a fair argument to make for newer content (eg. Eureka and particularly the fact that they're apparently doing it again despite very mixed reactions to the first one) the MSQ roulette dungeons seem to be more of an early mistake that they're stuck with. They clearly conceived if it as an epic finale to the story - as they might implement for a single-player RPG - and failed to consider the issue of queue times for "latecomers" who still need a party of eight to enter this otherwise-dead content.

The roulette and rewards aren't implemented because the level is something intended to be run repeatedly, but because they realised that to ensure new players are able to do it at all, they need old players in there and regularly queuing for it - and they need to be incentivised to do it, because they wouldn't choose to otherwise. It's patching up a mistake rather than designing major repeatable content.

The rewards aren't there to make the roulette a featured activity, they're compensation for helping new players through this acknowledged-to-be-badly-designed content - keeping the queue flowing for them whether they're directly in your party or not.

This exactly. Having all those cutscenes mid duty was a mistake they learned from and haven't repeated since. The linear story of the game necessitates that new players have an easy time queueing for any duties in the msq, which is why roulettes are there in the first place. To keep old content relevant for max level players so that new players can still progress via dutyfinder.

While the current system isn't perfect, I think it's the best they can do short of outright redesigning these 8man dungeons as solo instances. It preserves the experience for people that want it, and everyone else is being fairly compensated for the time investment. Nobody is forced to queue for this roulette, so anyone that wants to avoid the cutscenes can simply not queue. So there really shouldn't be a problem for anyone queing in. If you want the cutscenes, great. If you don't, you're being compensated for the time and aren't being forced into it.

If you could get Praetorium in say, Leveling roulette or 50/60/70 roulette, then yeah, that would be a problem because you'd go in expecting a 15-20 minute or so dungeon and then end up with a 45 minute Prae run. But with CM and Prae locked into their own reoulette, nobody should ever be surprised or caught unaware of the time investment.

[Tlamila]

You're right. I know I'm alone in thinking it's garbage; that's why SE has to bribe people to do it, and why they kept adding new cutscene-infested MSQ dungeons for each new expansion.

By definition all roulettes can be defined as "bribing people to do old content they wouldn't otherwise touch anymore" be it msq or Sastasha or Doma Castle or Holminster Switch or whatever. That's the whole point of them. MSQ roulette gives bigger rewards (but then Castrum doesn't really give more than levelling roulette) because of how much time it takes, not because "it sucks".

[purgatori]

While it's a fair argument to make for newer content (eg. Eureka and particularly the fact that they're apparently doing it again despite very mixed reactions to the first one) the MSQ roulette dungeons seem to be more of an early mistake that they're stuck with. They clearly conceived if it as an epic finale to the story - as they might implement for a single-player RPG - and failed to consider the issue of queue times for "latecomers" who still need a party of eight to enter this otherwise-dead content.

The roulette and rewards aren't implemented because the level is something intended to be run repeatedly, but because they realised that to ensure new players are able to do it at all, they need old players in there and regularly queuing for it - and they need to be incentivised to do it, because they wouldn't choose to otherwise. It's patching up a mistake rather than designing major repeatable content.

The rewards aren't there to make the roulette a featured activity, they're compensation for helping new players through this acknowledged-to-be-badly-designed content - keeping the queue flowing for them whether they're directly in your party or not.

I realise that, but they replaced this content in the MSQ with more enjoyable—even first time through—solo duties. It is, as you say, badly designed content—again, even first time through—that creates a bad impression of the game. I understand the arguments of those who are happy to sit through/alt-tab out of the mind-numbing cutscenes in exchange for some shinies, but I will always advocate for going back to old content and bringing it into line with the standards of the new; in fact, that's something that is very long overdue that SE are just now getting around to. I would expect that these rubbish MSQ dungeons are one of the things they will change, unless they are content to leave them there sticking out like a sore thumb.

By definition all roulettes can be defined as "bribing people to do old content they wouldn't otherwise touch anymore" be it msq or Sastasha or Doma Castle or Holminster Switch or whatever. That's the whole point of them. MSQ roulette gives bigger rewards (but then Castrum doesn't really give more than levelling roulette) because of how much time it takes, not because "it sucks".

The amount of time it takes is all part of the content's suckiness. And sure, you need to put some incentive in place to get people to repeat any content multiple times. The crucial distinction between this and other roulettes is that they (with the exception of the Alliance Raid roulette, which, unsurprisingly, is the other one that people hate doing) feature some amount of variation, and there is intrinsic enjoyment to be had there—at least for a greater proportion of people than there is for both new players and veterans with respect to the zerg-unskippable cutscene-zerg- party. That's why I call one bribery, and not the other.

[RokkuEkkusu]

I realise that, but they replaced this content in the MSQ with more enjoyable—even first time through—solo duties. It is, as you say, badly designed content—again, even first time through—that creates a bad impression of the game. I understand the arguments of those who are happy to sit through/alt-tab out of the mind-numbing cutscenes in exchange for some shinies, but I will always advocate for going back to old content and bringing it into line with the standards of the new; in fact, that's something that is very long overdue that SE are just now getting around to. I would expect that these rubbish MSQ dungeons are one of the things they will change, unless they are content to leave them there sticking out like a sore thumb.



The amount of time it takes is all part of the content's suckiness. And sure, you need to put some incentive in place to get people to repeat any content multiple times. The crucial distinction between this and other roulettes is that they (with the exception of the Alliance Raid roulette, which, unsurprisingly, is the other one that people hate doing) feature some amount of variation, and there is intrinsic enjoyment to be had there—at least for a greater proportion of people than there is for both new players and veterans with respect to the zerg-unskippable cutscene-zerg- party. That's why I call one bribery, and not the other.

Speaking of comparing other roulettes, when it comes to Mentor Roulette, I'd rather be doing Castrum Meridianum or Praetorium with Forced Cutscenes than do any Extreme Primal on synced on Duty Finder, even the easier ones. The reasons are that I can help people get through the story, chat with party members during cutscenes, relive past cutscenes, get some gil/tomes from roulette bonus, and most importantly: I can clear the Main Scenario Roulette dungeons with the unskippable cutscenes way more consistently than Extreme Primals on Duty Finder with randoms.