Does WoW have a faster pace than FFXIV?

[linay]

It can also be solved by learning fights as well and knowing whats coming, script or no thats just how it is. If you see a mech dodge, being reactionary isnt bad thing

Sure, and a script is a tool to make that learning easier. Being reactionary is not a bad thing, but scripted fight doesn't eliminate reactionary actions.

[frostmagemari]

Sure, and a script is a tool to make that learning easier. Being reactionary is not a bad thing, but scripted fight doesn't eliminate reactionary actions.

Actually, it sort of does. A lot of the fights don't operate under the assumption of allowing you dodge time(And when they do, they are pretty blatant about saying "Go to this side to avoid what's going to happen!"; A lot of mechanics have cast timers that assume you will be in the right spot (or near to it) before the area graphic hits the floor, and if you're not near where you should be before the warning graphic lands, you get hit.
And thing is.. this doesn't make the fights at all harder; this simply makes the fights a test you need to study for.

[linay]

Actually, it sort of does. A lot of the fights don't operate under the assumption of allowing you dodge time; A lot of mechanics have cast timers that assume you will be in the right spot (or near to it) before the area graphic hits the floor, and if you're not near where you should be before the warning graphic lands, you get hit.

It's still reactionary and you are still dodging.

And thing is.. this doesn't make the fights at all harder; this simply makes the fights a test you need to study for.

Harder than what? And a test can be hard, especially those you have to study for.

[frostmagemari]

It's still reactionary and you are still dodging.

No, you're not. You are going to a pre-planned place because you know what event is coming next. That is not dodging, that is not reactionary, that is following a script.

Harder than what? And a test can be hard, especially those you have to study for.

Not really. You are memorizing facts, not trying to understand a concept. Facts are not difficult. You simply have to be in X place at Y point in the fight, and you know you have to be there because Z event just happened.

[linay]

No, you're not. You are going to a pre-planned place because you know what event is coming next. That is not dodging, that is not reactionary, that is following a script.

Following a script doesn't mean you're not reacting and dodging. You are reacting to the AOE marker and dodging the attack that is coming according to what the marker tells you.

Not really. You are memorizing facts, not trying to understand a concept. Facts are not difficult. You simply have to be in X place at Y point in the fight, and you know you have to be there because Z event just happened.

Memorization may not be difficult for you, but it can for others. What you find easy to do, others may not find so easy to do.

[frostmagemari]

Following a script doesn't mean you're not reacting and dodging. You are reacting to the AOE marker and dodging the attack that is coming according to what the marker tells you.

No.. you're not. You're not reacting to anything. A reaction means something has occurred against you and you are taking an action to actively avoid it. A scripted encounter means that you move from position A towards position B not because something has occurred to force you to move/react; but because you saw the boss take a completely separate action, but that action precedes the ability that would need to be avoided, and so you preemptively take action to negate what will follow in the bosses ability procession.

Memorization may not be difficult for you, but it can for others. What you find easy to do, others may not find so easy to do.

It is simply easier to memorize a pattern to be followed than react to semi-random events within a fight, as the pattern never shifts and you never really have to think about what to do IF an event will occur and take you out of your comfort zone in a fight as you only have to keep in mind the (unchanging) order in which the events will occur.

[linay]

No.. you're not. You're not reacting to anything. A reaction means something has occurred against you and you are taking an action to actively avoid it. A scripted encounter means that you move from position A towards position B not because something has occurred to force you to move/react; but because you saw the boss take a completely separate action, but that action precedes the ability that would need to be avoided, and so you preemptively take action to negate what will follow in the bosses ability procession.

A scripted encounter is about order of mechanics. You are still reacting to the mechanics. Take Titan's landslide. In a scripted fight, you know when it's coming, but you don't position yourself until the time to react to that mechanic. And depending on the mechanic, there may still be further things to react too, like AOEs that follow you around. You react to the first marker that tells you it's coming, and then you react accordingly as each successive AOEs come to actively avoid them. The script is there to prepare you to know about the mechanics, but you are still reacting and dodging the mechanics accordingly.

It is simply easier to memorize a pattern to be followed than react to semi-random events within a fight, as the pattern never shifts and you never really have to think about what to do IF an event will occur and take you out of your comfort zone in a fight as you only have to keep in mind the (unchanging) order in which the events will occur.

I did say:

Sure, and a script is a tool to make that learning easier.

That doesn't change the fact that it is still hard for some people to do.

[tdb]

No.. you're not. You're not reacting to anything. A reaction means something has occurred against you and you are taking an action to actively avoid it. A scripted encounter means that you move from position A towards position B not because something has occurred to force you to move/react; but because you saw the boss take a completely separate action, but that action precedes the ability that would need to be avoided, and so you preemptively take action to negate what will follow in the bosses ability procession.

You may know that you need to move at a specific time, but you won't always know exactly where to move. Maybe the boss places a delayed AoE on a random player, or it fires a wide beam in a random direction. You know the attack is coming, but you still have to watch the boss to know where it's coming and react accordingly. Some examples:
- Sophia ex's duplicated attack mechanic - it's not scripted which clone you have to move under, or which attack she does (although being close and just behind avoids both)
- Midgardsormr's spin/roll attacks in O10. You have to watch what he does to know whether you need to move close, far, to sides or to corners.
- Midgardsormr's flame breath mechanic just after the add phase. The order in which players are targeted is random.
- Omega's starboard/larboard mechanic in O11. The boss flipping around between the two attacks makes it even more difficult to get straight.
- Several boss mechanics in the Copied Factory. All bosses have mechanics where the targeting of an attack is randomized and you can't just move to a fixed place at a fixed time.

And let's not forget the perhaps most important source of randomness: other players. You can never predict exactly what they do, and it has a significant effect on where the attacks are aimed. Only raiding with a static alleviates this to an extent since you get to know each other and can do more planning beforehand, but there are still factors like someone being drunk or tired which may make them forget or react sluggishly and then others will have to adapt.

Also, even if many of FFXIV's fights are loosely choreographed dances, they're incredibly complex dances. Some people (me included) get satisfaction from mastering such a dance. It's kind of like playing an instrument (piano in my case) - a particular song is always the same, but it still feels good when you can move your fingers in precisely the right way for several minutes without making a mistake. If that's not your thing, that's fine, but it doesn't make FFXIV an objectively worse game.