PLDs: You have Clemency for a reason.

[SaberMaxwell]

Or..... you could compromise and do middle-ground.

Yeah, 1 group pull is a bit boring, even in my opinion.
3 Group pulls, at least as SCH, is too stressful.

So.... what's between 1 and 3?

Right, 2.

EDIT: I will also note that yesterday I had a Shisui run, and the tank there did a 3 group pull and it was rather smooth. I'm thinking that maybe either ShB dungeons are tuned a bit high, esp Holminster, or maybe the fact that being Level Sync'd makes a rather big difference in how smooth things go. Which goes back to my initial complaint: If the healer isn't Sync'd, I think a 2 group pull to start with is probably better and see how much they struggle, or if they breeze through it like it's nothing, watch for things like whether or not you notice them casting DPS spells. If you do a 2 group pull and you see very little DPS out of the healer, chances are they are struggling and 3 group pull is not a good idea.

Compromise requires communication. It requires you to ask the tank to slow down. But no, you "shouldn't have to" ask I guess.

[Maeka]

Compromise requires communication. It requires you to ask the tank to slow down. But no, you "shouldn't have to" ask I guess.

Let me ask you this, politely.

Going max pull speedrunning is on one end of the spectrum.
Pulling only 1 group at a time is on the other end of the spectrum.
Compromise is somewhere in the middle.

When you show up to a dungeon with 3 random people who you don't know, you don't know how well they are geared unless you /inspect them (who has time to do that, in every dungeon?) or ask (most people don't wanna talk or say anything).

So what is the "Default", then, if nothing is said?

Should it be one of the extremes, or something in the middle?

Common sense, at least to me, says that the middle-ground should be the default. Pull 2 groups, a healer who is not comfortable should say "could we do 1 group?" ... a healer who is good at their job and well-geared will go "you can pull 3 if you want".

Is there a problem with that?

Just curious.

[WhyAmIHere]

(2/2)

Maeka is every bit in the right to expect people to do sub optimal things to smoothen the run in the same way others can expect of Maeka to play suboptimally (no DPS for instance or clipping / triple use of OGCD) if it means saving them.

. . .No?
No one should expect ANYTHING of anyone.

Let me ask you this, politely.

Going max pull speedrunning is on one end of the spectrum.
Pulling only 1 group at a time is on the other end of the spectrum.
Compromise is somewhere in the middle.

When you show up to a dungeon with 3 random people who you don't know, you don't know how well they are geared unless you /inspect them (who has time to do that, in every dungeon?) or ask (most people don't wanna talk or say anything).

So what is the "Default", then, if nothing is said?

Should it be one of the extremes, or something in the middle?

Common sense, at least to me, says that the middle-ground should be the default. Pull 2 groups, a healer who is not comfortable should say "could we do 1 group?" ... a healer who is good at their job and well-geared will go "you can pull 3 if you want".

Is there a problem with that?

Bold/Underlined is your problem. In your opinion. Everyone else has their own opinions. And unless you speak up at all you will not learn anything.

I'll ask your opinion on how I personally pull, just to prove a point.

I don't use sprint in dungeons. I'm lazy.
I pull wall to wall unless someone says something. I'm lazy.
Where in your spectrum would that fall? Is sprinting what makes that too extreme? Is pulling wall to wall what makes that too extreme? Is me assuming the healer i get matched with to be capable of keeping up too extreme?

. . .3k character limit sucks btw.

[Patcheresu]

Common sense, at least to me, says that the middle-ground should be the default. Pull 2 groups, a healer who is not comfortable should say "could we do 1 group?" ... a healer who is good at their job and well-geared will go "you can pull 3 if you want".

Is there a problem with that?

I don't quite agree with your common sense. I've had situations where the tank asked how big the pull should be or silently did a single pull. If a healer doesn't like how the tank is performing, they should warn them they cannot comfortably move at that pace. Communication is very important.

I do not understand why you believe that my, and the rest of people you group under "common sense", default assumption is to have so little faith in my allies that they cannot handle a big pull at Level 80 in a Level 79 dungeon. And, please do not call it "speedrunning". That is quite a misnomer, as the reason for doing this is a faster clear, not some attempt at a competitive record. Simply call it by a better name "big pulls".

I'm not sure why you believe the go to strat should be big pulling but only "not so" big pulling. The difference between a 2 pull and a 3 pull is whether your healer can stop casting Malefic to fight a fire the party failed to put out before it caught the tank's flesh ablaze. You're still using lots of cooldowns, aoes, and oGCD heals, they just wont be used as efficiently perhaps.

And on the forum topic, we do have Clemency for a reason. Are you familiar with the meaning of the word? It's pardoning of ones sins. Like a healer who failed to hold up to the party's needs. Or a DPS who keeps standing in bad stuff. Or a cotank who made a mistake and is badly hurt. Clemency is accident forgiveness your PLD must think about providing, as using it directly affects their ability to fight properly (Requiescat).

[ForteNightshade]

Is there a problem with that?

Just curious.

Yes, because in the vast majority of cases, it won't be a problem regardless of the healer. I've even healed those wall-to-wall pulls myself on all three healers, and I'm by now means a good Scholar. It's entirely doable provided the tank rotates CDs properly and the DPS are AoE. Considering you had a Paladin who began with Hallowed. That tells me they're at least reasonably competent as leading with your immunity is often what tanks do to get a second or third usage.

I shouldn't have to assume a middle ground because once in a while I have a healer who can't cope. In this specific instance, it sounds more like you either had weak DPS or you weren't managing your resources well. If you're running low on stacks, use Dissipation when the first pull is dying. That way you'll have three going into the next and Eos will be off her 30s penalty. By the time you've depleted those, AF itself will be available. Soil is also not worth the cost until it gets its Regen, which I don't believe it has in Holminster. Finally, if you are tapped out completely. Use Physick.