I'm not excited about the future patch at all. Just one dungeon?

[Shurrikhan]

People would still hate Eureka regardless, it was designed to waste your time with monotonous tasks.

Then, by contrast, would it have still been time "wasted" if the tasks weren't monotonous?

I was a heavy critic of Eureka. I enjoyed some of the social aspects, especially in Pagos (oddly enough, the worst grinds made for the most fun social experiences, though that does not make bad grinds uniquely capable of stimulating social interactions), but I hated how little was done to make Eureka itself (separate from social aspects that could be found elsewhere in their periods of boom) appealing. I would have far preferred that more time had been spent on the actual gameplay loops (rather than most of it appearing just to go into auxiliary systems, cutscenes, and zone design -- only the latter of which paid off until Logos, which was still muddled imo), even if that meant further delays or fewer zones in total. But, there was a fair bit there I enjoyed and could see it being a fun part of the game for more than just social reasons if it hadn't been so barebone.

[Shurrikhan]

Sure, and I'm not against having more midcore content, just not Mythic+ specifically.

If you can think of another solution as cost-effective as literally just turning casual content into difficulties of the players' choice, such that one can progressively challenge themselves through the whole, fluid span of upper casual, midcore, and into top-tier content, then by all means we can work from that instead. For myself and clearly many others here, that's the only example of stupidly cost-effective design for that purpose we've yet seen in an MMO.

Now, we could start first and foremost from Necrologos pages or TT cards or elemental crystals or marks of the zodiac or materia or whatever else and flesh that source out until it reaches an engaging and cost-efficient solution applicable to providing midcore content, but that source-to-result idea is just going to require far, far more detail to even bring to a point others can discuss than backward-facing or big-picture design as can be easily summed up by notable (almost meme-worthy) examples like "Mythic+". That's why you see it so often, especially from players who feel like XIV's gameplay development most lacks a sufficient focus on the big picture.

I'm right alongside you in detesting game elements translated directly from one game to another. But backward-facing design is probably our best framework for discussion for where we are now. We can find the best way to get to what we want after we know what it is we want.

[linay]

If you can think of another solution as cost-effective as literally just turning casual content into difficulties of the players' choice, such that one can progressively challenge themselves through the whole, fluid span of upper casual, midcore, and into top-tier content, then by all means we can work from that instead. For myself and clearly many others here, that's the only example of stupidly cost-effective design for that purpose we've yet seen in an MMO.

Now, we could start first and foremost from Necrologos pages or TT cards or elemental crystals or marks of the zodiac or materia or whatever else and flesh that source out until it reaches an engaging and cost-efficient solution applicable to providing midcore content, but that source-to-result idea is just going to require far, far more detail to even bring to a point others can discuss than backward-facing or big-picture design as can be easily summed up by notable (almost meme-worthy) examples like "Mythic+". That's why you see it so often, especially from players who feel like XIV's gameplay development most lacks a sufficient focus on the big picture.

I'm right alongside you in detesting game elements translated directly from one game to another. But backward-facing design is probably our best framework for discussion for where we are now. We can find the best way to get to what we want after we know what it is we want.

It's hard for me to discuss ideas as I'm very much content with what we have, so I'm not really looking for something else. In that sense, I'd rather leave it to the dev to "surprise and delight" with something new if and when they can, and then I'll decide once I get to know more about it.

The only thing I can address for now are things that I already know I don't want, like Mythic+.

[reivaxe]

I realized a loooong time ago that not all content is for everyone.

So it always erks me to see people whine about Eureka. Like .... wtf? You didn't "miss the boat", you can jump in there anytime you want. It's not like it was before but it's still popping in these times when the game doesn't have anything big or new to do. Friend of mine power leveled herself from 11 to 20 in a day, I got a whole 1 and 3/4ths weapon done in about a week recently ... you have no excuse other then not wanting to do it.

I mean, it's fine to not want to do something. But you shouldn't expect the game to bend over backwards to make everything accessible and appealing to you personally. I will never bother fishing ... would be foolish for me to expect them to make fishing rewards accessible to me or for them to not reward players who DO enjoy it. So if they want to talk about a big fishing update then cool.
As for dngs I use to whine about them being easy until I realized that I only do them as a chore to get exp or glam. Doesn't matter how creative they get, mindlessly killing things will never be as enjoyable as the rewards or other things I enjoy in game. Pretty clear they realized this a long time ago which lead to the design we have now. Now they realize that they can do fewer dngs and use that energy else where.

[Shurrikhan]

It's hard for me to discuss ideas as I'm very much content with what we have, so I'm not really looking for something else. In that sense, I'd rather leave it to the dev to "surprise and delight" with something new if and when they can, and then I'll decide once I get to know more about it.

The only thing I can address for now are things that I already know I don't want, like Mythic+.

Then your preference is to preclude a broad set of what would be improvements to many others. Expect conflict.

I don't doubt that any polls will skew their findings either through connotations and loaded terms one way or the other, but as someone who badly wants to be able to find challenging and progressive content outside of mere sliver that is Savage, ideally in chunks and sizes that does not oblige a static, I'd most likely have to vote against you.

So it always erks me to see people whine about Eureka. Like .... wtf? You didn't "miss the boat", you can jump in there anytime you want.

That's a bit disingenuous. Content that depends on a certain range in player count, and especially when as dependent on social interactions to entertain as Eureka is, timing does matter -- just as much as much as, if not considerably more than, it does in Savage progression.

If the experience significantly changes, however indirectly, can you honestly say that people who joined without even enough people near their level to form a full party with with get the same breadth of experience from the content as you had in its heyday?

And the accessibility most often discussed amounted only to basic, fundamental QoL features like level sync or more lenient experience curves so that high levels do not so quickly sabotage their lower-level friends if playing together, and to rewards with greater longevity as to increase Eureka's player count later in its life. None of those things are "expecting the game to bend over backwards to make everything accessible". It's just plain old more effective design -- a modicum of foresight where XIV is so often lacking.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Friend of mine power leveled herself from 11 to 20 in a day, I got a whole 1 and 3/4ths weapon done in about a week recently ... you have no excuse other then not wanting to do it.

Where you 2 by yourselves, or did you happen to be in an organized group?
You have any tips that might make Eureka more Bearable for somebody like me that suffered and didnt have a good time doing it? Because unless things got significantly Nerfed and exp gains and drop rates rose, Eureka for me is just a huge slog. I tried, I honestly did, so Im always scratching my head whenever somebody says its easy, or not that bad, or I hear stories that somebody Power-leveled.
Like is there a trick, something I dont know? Id still love to go back and at least get 1 weapon, but Im discouraged at the idea that I might make progress then die and loose my EXP because I have to respawn, or spending way to much time in there when my Game time is limited (Job and stuff) And I could be doing other stuff that I could actually make progress on.
Again, any tips or tricks or something. It took forever for me to get to lv 10. And your friend went from 11 to 20 in a day?!
Teach me Sensei!

[linay]

Then your preference is to preclude a broad set of what would be improvements to many others. Expect conflict.

I don't doubt that any polls will skew their findings either through connotations and loaded terms one way or the other, but as someone who badly wants to be able to find challenging and progressive content outside of mere sliver that is Savage, ideally in chunks and sizes that does not oblige a static, I'd most likely have to vote against you.

That's fine. If your only idea for "challenging and progressive" content is Mythic+, then I have no reason to support that. That's not even a "broad set of improvements." That's just one type of content. Who says content has to be "progressive" anyway? I value being able to say "I am done" with a piece of content and wait for the next one and meanwhile either do something else in the game and/or play other game or do other things.

[Omymy]

That's fine. If your only idea for "challenging and progressive" content is Mythic+, then I have no reason to support that. That's not even a "broad set of improvements." That's just one type of content. Who says content has to be "progressive" anyway? I value being able to say "I am done" with a piece of content and wait for the next one and meanwhile either do something else in the game and/or play other game or do other things.

And whats your challenging and progressive content then in FFXIV?

Enlight us.

[linay]

And whats your challenging and progressive content then in FFXIV?

Enlight us.

I don't need to think of any. I'm content with what we have.

[Omymy]

I don't need to think of any. I'm content with what we have.

Yeah, picking flowers wearing a bikini with 2b pants sounds like the ultimate content.