Limited Job #2: Beastmaster

[dinnertime]

You mention glamour egi and how little they have updated it and then act as if this "taming for cosmetic" bit for BST is somehow going to be any different. They haven't considered egi glamour a priority for the last several years and that won't change anytime soon, what makes BST so different? If they wanted to nail down its beast taming and raising they would make it a limited job and put actual work on those aspects.

I know. I suspect they haven't updated Egi Glamour in years because of how Summoner is shifting gameplay recently from Egi/pets to Trance and Demi.
Still, they can revisit the system for Beastmaster, but improved. Come on now, do you think I would like them to give Beastmaster the text command egi-glamour equivalent and call it quits there? That is shallow.
Even though it's not tied to the combat, the one you glossed over which is Bard Perform is something they improve and update constantly. They're totally capable of giving the same effort to the beasts of Beastmaster.

I won't play armchair dev, but it's obvious that Beastmaster being a limited job is a really bad idea. People should just accept that FFXIV is a different game, and Beastmaster (if non-limited) will be different. Accept change instead of alienating players more with a failed concept.

[Auryan]

I know. I suspect they haven't updated Egi Glamour in years because of how Summoner is shifting gameplay recently from Egi/pets to Trance and Demi.
Still, they can revisit the system for Beastmaster, but improved. Come on now, do you think I would like them to give Beastmaster the text command egi-glamour equivalent and call it quits there? That is shallow.
Even though it's not tied to the combat, the one you glossed over which is Bard Perform is something they improve and update constantly. They're totally capable of giving the same effort to the beasts of Beastmaster.

I won't play armchair dev, but it's obvious that Beastmaster being a limited job is a really bad idea. People should just accept that FFXIV is a different game, and Beastmaster (if non-limited) will be different. Accept change instead of alienating players more with a failed concept.

That could be a possible explanation, or they don't really care about egi glamour. The simplest explanation often makes the most sense. Anyway, I'm saying don't expect much in the area of pet customization if it's just a tacked on feature of little importance. Unless they actually really focus on it, like they would if it's a limited job instead. Perform is different because it's not a purely cosmetic feature, it's interactive and encourages people to use it in a group setting. Egi glamour doesn't and companion glamour wouldn't either. It's just there for the player to have an illusion of choice of pets. Nothing more or less.

Alienating players? I mean no one is forcing anyone to play these content. Possible BST mains? A lot of these mains for non-existing jobs seem to just conveniently show up when talking about these jobs. It's sad for them, but honestly, it wasn't like they had much hope to begin with here.

[dinnertime]

Alienating players? I mean no one is forcing anyone to play these content. Possible BST mains? A lot of these mains for non-existing jobs seem to just conveniently show up when talking about these jobs. It's sad for them, but honestly, it wasn't like they had much hope to begin with here.

They literally trampled over the people hoping for Blue Mage when they realized they cannot play it in endgame content. That's alienating. Limited jobs are different from what we usually get, and it's a bad one. At this point it's objectively not a good idea to move forward with the concept.

[Alleo]

Every other DoW/M job gets new content to do with every single [major]patch. BLU hasn't gotten any new content since its release. BLU doesn't need constant updates, it just needs updates at a decent pace like any other job. BLU's design and the Masked Carnival easily allow for greater innovation and more meaningful rewards to be added more often than every 2-3 patches.

But they dont need to update all these jobs with each new dungeon (as long as everything is balanced). The content for blue only exists for blue. There is no other use for it. You cant do it for any other job. There is much more work going into this for one single limited job than what they probably do for dungeons. With each of these additions they need to balance blue new, they need to give it a bunch of new skills and animation.

Its more like Eureka, where there is a complete new leveling system in it..but at least even that does not restrict it to just one job.

What updates could it even get at a decent pace? New skills? For what? To use a bit more of those in old outdated content? New levels is not possible because they said that they dont want it in newer content so it always has to be left behind max level. Completely new content like the carneval but something else? Why take away more time and manpower for something that is barely even brought to max level? A few new stages in the carneval? That wont keep the people playing this much longer.

In the end there is no need for more content if the core concept of the job is not fun for most. Even quite some that wanted it to be a solo limited job were disappointed after release because seemingly even SE cant decide what it should be..if its solo and can only do old content than make it overpowered...but no its not even completely solo because most skills are behind group content and now we get another group content on top of that..and its far away from being overpowered so after a few self explosions it seemingly cant keep the attention of most people.

Beastmaster would just be the same if nothing greatly changes.

It could be cosmetic, but BST would still be able to tame creatures within dungeons, which could create exploitation. If they are not able to tame creatures, in dungeons, what is the point of making it a group job? The gist of BST is taming.

Do you really believe that you would be able to tame every beast in this game if the job was limited? No I really doubt that. Blue can also not learn all the spells that are ingame either. Its not reasonable to have that because they would need to have an animation and attacks for every single monster in this game..

[LineageRazor]

I should have just made a BST topic and left off the limited job part. I honestly wanted to celebrate the job because I loved BST. I just didn't see how it work in a party, which is why I recommended a limited job situation.

Perhaps - but why don't you feel that it would not work in a party? Historically, Beastmaster has ALWAYS been a party job - at least, up until FFXI. That's the first time it went solo. This implies to me that you're basing your idea of BST around FFXI's BST, so let's take a look at that...

In FFXI, BST would charm mobs in the wild, and use them to defeat other mobs. It was exhilarating, and I loved it! But... mobs in FFXI were a WHOLE lot scarier than mobs in FFXIV. You need to fight mobs like ten levels higher than you to get any kind of challenge in this game. Additionally, defeating mobs was a whole lot more rewarding in FFXI. There, it was the main source of exp for leveling. Here? You can practically go your whole game career without killing a single overworld mob (excepting those instances where the MSQ forces you to).

So, let's take FFXI's BST, and drop it wholesale into FFXIV. He steps out into Thanalan, Charms a Marmot, sics it on another Marmot - and then watches, bored, while it takes forty seconds to kill a mob that he could have ended himself with two swings of the axe.

Ah, but who cares about the Overworld! Instances are where the fun stuff happens, right? Well, this is FFXI BST - they can't Charm jack in instances, except in special cases where the devs decided to allow it. So, the BST will have to use jugpets, instead. And just as in FFXI, jugpets are pretty substandard pets. In a game where the mobs themselves are pretty substandard compared to how tough they were in FFXI. So, once again, either the BST watches in boredom while the pet slowly, but safely, wears the mob down (but dies much earlier since it's a jugpet, leaving the BST to do most of the work petless), or the BST joins in and so is basically a ordinary axe-wielder doing most of the work while an ineffectual pet plunks away at his side.

No, for BST to not suck in this game, it would need to be changed in a lot of ways from its FFXI incarnation. The question is, how? What must stay? What can we let go? And if Charm is one of those things that must stay - then yes, it will be a Limited job, for sure. And for Charm to not suck, Charming the mob will need to SUPERCHARGE that mob, because mobs in this game - even the much-tougher trash mobs in instances - are VERY weak compared to their contemporaries in FFXI.

Now imagine they introduce even more limited jobs. They might be similar but each needs its own content, its own skills, its own balance..at least with normal jobs you have the argument that they are used widely and with every content. This one is limited in content and seemingly its playstyle and use barely makes people play it. I am looking forward to seeing how long this new log will work...and how fast people will post that they cant find other Bluemages, especially for the 24 man.

This is a pretty key issue. Making a Limited job is not any easier than making a regular job. In fact, it might be MORE work - new jobs just need to be balanced against the same content the other jobs are. Limited jobs need new content made especially for them, such as the Carnivale. And, unless we want that job to stagnate and die, NEW content has to be continually created JUST for that job as time goes on.

Each new job will likely have its own specialized content. If we get BST, it will likely have BST-only content that BLU and other jobs can't do. So, in addition to regular content, and BLU content, we now have BST content to worry about - and each new Limited job adds another helping to the plate the devs have to consume.

We got BLU because the players demanded it. We got BLU as a Limited job because Yoshi P didn't feel that the core concepts of BLU would work for the common content (in spite of the fact that many, many fans, including myself, disagreed with him as to what concepts were core to BLU) - not because it was easier to implement.

Do you really believe that you would be able to tame every beast in this game if the job was limited? No I really doubt that. Blue can also not learn all the spells that are ingame either. Its not reasonable to have that because they would need to have an animation and attacks for every single monster in this game..

More to the point, BLU spells don't WORK ON every single monster in the game. When Yoshi P was giving examples of how broken BLU would be (giving reasons why it could not be a full job), players were expecting to SEE some of that brokenness in the limited jobs. It was not to be found - at least, not to the degree that Yoshi P's doomsaying seemed to imply.

[CazzT]

I should have just made a BST topic and left off the limited job part. I honestly wanted to celebrate the job because I loved BST. I just didn't see how it work in a party, which is why I recommended a limited job situation.

I support BST being added to the game. I love pet classes in most games.
I just don't want to see any more limited jobs. As someone who loves that particular job, I would think you would want to see it get the proper attention and care it deserves instead of being limited.

It could be cosmetic, but BST would still be able to tame creatures within dungeons, which could create exploitation.

What exploitation? If it's just cosmetic, what could be exploited?

[Nabiri]

I would be very disappointed to see any more limited jobs in the game. Especially Beastmaster or Puppetmaster (as I really love these jobs). I really want jobs that I can use in any and all battle content.

I actually believe that SE is quite capable of making BLU, BST, or PUP unlimited jobs if they make a version of them that fits this game. They don't have to be exactly like they were in the past. RDM is quite different in this game, and as others pointed out so are BRD and SMN.
I also think the "BLU would be OP" argument isn't valid at all. I'm sure SE could balance it just like they do with every other job. Tailor BLU to THIS game. Tailor BST to THIS game. Then there will be no need for this 'limited' junk.

I don't want to see any more beloved jobs come out half-baked as a result of being afraid to change them a little to make them fit FFXIV.

[He-Saiyan]

If BST have tame in a dungeon, it can be exploited regardless if the pets are reskins. In XI, BST tamed creatures. Devs killed tame once instances such as Abyssea & Escha became a thing. Group content.

Prior to this, BST was a solo job in XI. People switched jobs if they wanted to group up, because BST would mostly group with other BST or play solo.

People complained that BST is not a group job, SE killed charming/tame, gimped BST, now they complain that BST is gimped....The worst part? Most of BST gear still has the dated charm & tame boost instead of dd.....What a mess. That is due to jugs; is BST a tamer or a class who summons jugs? Now the BST picture is more murky.....

The moral of the story, BST should have stayed a solo job. Nobody was crying gimp, because we all understood what BST was. Devs even admitted it was basically a solo class in XI. The cries for group content made BST become the most nerfed job in XI.

Cosmetic reskins of pets in the form of jugs is what they are currently doing in XI, & the BST community hates it. The last update received pages of backlash because the pets were simply cosmetic reskins. Why would the do the same thing over expecting a different result? BST was fine as a solo class.

[jon041065]

If BST have tame in a dungeon, it can be exploited regardless if the pets are reskins. In XI, BST tamed creatures. Devs killed tame once instances such as Abyssea & Escha became a thing. Group content.

Prior to this, BST was a solo job in XI. People switched jobs if they wanted to group up, because BST would mostly group with other BST or play solo.

People complained that BST is not a group job, SE killed charming/tame, gimped BST, now they complain that BST is gimped....The worst part? Most of BST gear still has the dated charm & tame boost instead of dd.....What a mess. That is due to jugs; is BST a tamer or a class who summons jugs? Now the BST picture is more murky.....

The moral of the story, BST should have stayed a solo job. Nobody was crying gimp, because we all understood what BST was. Devs even admitted it was basically a solo class in XI. The cries for group content made BST become the most nerfed job in XI.

Cosmetic reskins of pets in the form of jugs is what they are currently doing in XI, & the BST community hates it. The last update received pages of backlash because the pets were simply cosmetic reskins. Why would the do the same thing over expecting a different result? BST was fine as a solo class.

Believe the backlash to that update were because all BST got were the new jugs instead of adjustments like being able to command your pet from a distance like PUP is able to.

[hynaku]

I'm sure heard it brought up in live letter beastmaster. Was they planning to add it as new job?