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  1. #21
    Player
    Vendalwind's Avatar
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    Jul 2019
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    Character
    Vendal Solairune
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 90
    I suppose I too could have been more constructive.

    For example you have some very cool ideas and good points.
    Like all the below.
    Quote Originally Posted by Archwizard View Post
    if as a full job at all.
    The idea of “a non-magical job that throws chemical concoctions in the thick of combat” could easily be used as a premise for a Ranged DPS job, tossing grenades, flasks of flammable oils or corrosive toxins. Classic consumable damage items (like Blue Fangs, Arctic Winds, Holy Water, etc) could be treated as basic attacks; Mix then could be treated as a resource system generated and regularly deployed through the course of one’s rotation, rather than as a cooldown like Divination or Steps – every third or fourth skill as a Mix effect, with interactions between various Mix effects to dictate the flow of the rotation at large.
    Chemist isn’t lacking for potential damage skills in that regard either, just look at Rikku from FF10, whose Overdrives offer a ridiculous number of bombs, buffs and elemental damage effects through the Mix system.

    And of course, much like DNC’s Curing Waltz or BRD’s Warden’s Paean, there would still be room for a Chemist to throw the occasional healing effect under the Ranged role. Might even be able to make the argument for them to get their own Cure or Raise skill.

    I’m saying neither that this is the only or best way to do it, of course, but to my mind the only other way to make Mix “unique” would be to have Chemist implemented as a Limited job, or just accept that Alchemist is the closest we’ll get to the potion-tossing fantasy.
    All of that is good content.
    I just really don't agree with your conclusions tho that the same kind of mixing and alternative resource couldn't work for a healer.

    I get that you don't like my idea and think it would fail to function right.
    When I do present whatever I come up with I of course anticipate more criticism.
    But please don't just shut an entire idea down because you see one potential flaw in it. If the devs operated like you do Monk and NIN would never have made it into the game either as their kits had, and still have, so many flaws.

    Most people don't flesh out the full concept for the job because to do so properly and with deep thought requires: Time. Time and lots of it. That doesn't mean their ideas couldn't work or be refined.

    I don't have a lot of free time right now myself but I will return to the concept of a healer chemist with a full class build in some time. *seriously tho I again spent too long today on the forums @_@*
    (0)
    Last edited by Vendalwind; 11-17-2019 at 04:54 PM.

  2. #22
    Player
    Archwizard's Avatar
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    Character
    Archwizard Drake
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Vendalwind View Post
    BRD was never a healer dude. Support yeah you can argue that.
    And support is what I have been arguing.
    Which is why Chemist would fit quite snugly within that role alongside DNC and BRD.

    Either you misread, failed to read, or glossed over a portion of my post. I actually specifically talked about how res would still have to be handled as a cast bar, AND how casting the spell would consume myriad charges from other moves so the drawback is similar to MP removal. That was a statement I threw out completely off the top of my head on the my first post, but you definitely didn't pay it any heed.
    And you either misread, failed to read, or glossed over the fact that limiting rez effects is only part of the value of MP on a healer.

    And while you could theoretically build an alternate resource (such as your charges) just to not have to use MP, then you run into the question of whether or not said resource would be affected by Piety -- if no, that becomes a dead stat for the job, and if yes, you've put the devs through the work of reskinning MP just to say it doesn't use MP.

    your interest in tearing down free form creative ideas says a lot more about you than your ability to design. Point out the problems.
    How can I be expected to criticize specific problems without specific designs to criticize?

    Snarky and unnecessary comment.
    Your response to my pointing out a fully-instant healer would be overpowered, was to bring up a design that still uses cast times as a balancing feature. Pointing out that contradiction is quite necessary, when it makes your example nonsequitur to the argument at hand.

    Then you suggest making chemist a class based on others while claiming it would fail to function as a healer class because it'd be too samey.
    There's a certain degree of "same-y" expected when it comes to healers, insofar as all require a certain number of archetypal skills in order to keep up with encounter mechanics. Sharing gear, role actions (regardless of animations), and general limitations is something that can generally be accepted for basically any other role with regards to balance, because to go through the hoops of avoiding them would be purely for the sake of avoiding them.

    My concern with Chemist is that creating a separate job that utilizes the same mechanics as another existing job -- particularly in examples that mention AST cards or seals, where the example is even within the same role -- makes that job redundant and offers nothing to the playstyle.

    The two are not mutually exclusive, and could only considered contradictory in the broadest possible sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vendalwind View Post
    I get that you don't like my idea and think it would fail to function right.
    When I do present whatever I come up with I of course anticipate more criticism.
    And I look forward to seeing a fleshed out idea when you do have the time for it. Because it will at least show you not only are passionate about adding the job, but have considered the difficulties of designing such a job.

    Most people don't flesh out the full concept for the job because to do so properly and with deep thought requires: Time. Time and lots of it. That doesn't mean their ideas couldn't work or be refined.
    And that would be fine, perfectly acceptable even, if these weren't also the same types of people who 1) post threads about adding Chemist without any constructive additions just because they want to claim they "predicted" the fourth healer, and 2) flood threads about adding a fourth healer with regurgitations of "Chemist", making the idea appear popular in spite of a lack of actual excitement for it, when the suggestion is truly just obligatory due to its history.
    (1)
    Last edited by Archwizard; 11-17-2019 at 05:27 PM.

  3. #23
    Player
    Duelle's Avatar
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    Character
    Duelle Urelle
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Archwizard View Post
    True, especially since many "healers" historically have just been variations on White Mage -- but on the other hand, it's not outside the realm of possibility for the devs to create an entirely original job (such as Gunbreaker, which in spite of its allusions to FF8 is still original).
    Considering how this game tends to lean towards references, I still posit the devs are more likely to rebuild a known job or idea into a healer than make up something new. Even Gunbreaker was basically the devs saying "we want a facsimile of Squall to be playable". It's a matter of who would be picked and how the devs would make it work. My go-to's for that reason are Chemist and Mystic.
    The important thing to me is the creation of a unique job that's fun to play.
    That's fine, though fun is a very subjective thing. "Unique" is a tricky word because depending on what you need and what's possible you might need to borrow things that work to build a new job. Not the ridiculous extent we saw with HW AST, but enough to get started and go from there.
    Chemist's identity in every entry is tied to consumable items. If you removed that element, it wouldn't be related to the original job in gameplay at all, it would just be a generic healer with potions in its cast animations and particle effects.
    You're gonna want to define "generic". I mean, it should be able to fulfill the things you expect out of a healer (restore HP, remove debuffs, maybe a party buff or two depending on where you want to take it). Writing off Chemist because it was tied on some level to inventory management and item hoarding doesn't make much sense to me, because otherwise we should be knocking on NIN's door and tell them they need to start using tools to cast ninjutsu and throwing consumables like shuriken and knives.
    And I concur, but again, the issue is that if all the devs have to go on is "throws potions", they could just as easily pull out Scholar and reskin its abilities to toss potions and change nothing else to satisfy that demand.
    The devs had only Celestial Stasis/Galaxy Stop to go with for AST, yet they were able to build a healer out of it (at the expense of Time Mage, but something's gotta give). I think they're more than capable of doing something for Chemist as well.

    Here's some barebones ideas for a CHM design (we really should be doing this in the healer forums, but meh):

    Chemists carry several mixing tools that help them perform their job as field medics. At the risk of using a concept that sounds borrowed from MCH, these tools have limited energy that recharges over time naturally. So gameplay would involve using heals and other abilities efficiently while ensuring your Tool Energy (for lack of better terminology) doesn't bottom out, because if it does energy recovery gets a penalty until your energy hits around 25-30%. Needless to say, you'd get some abilities to manipulate or help with energy recovery.

    One possible core mechanic would be certain abilities/heals reacting to each other, not unlike combos. You could have something like a healing powder that provides a HoT effect. If for some reason you need burst healing beyond your standard Cure equivalent, you'd have a cooldown that triggers/consumes the healing powder's effect to turn it into a heal for the full value of the HoT. In addition, you'd have stuff like the ability to buff one ally with Pluto (the herb used by that guy in the Lv30 PGL Quest) to enhance a party member's defense/damage resistance for a short time. Since we have to have gauges for everything, residue from alchemical preparation can be accumulated and used as a sort of primer; you'd be able to accumulate up to 4 primers before capping. These can be spent on certain potions that require primers or attacks that require same (or simply use primers to boost existing attacks).

    Offensively, CHM would deal damage with a modified firearm (this part is tricky because creating a distinction from MCH would be a problem) that shoots cast iron bullets but can be loaded with poison syringes and such. Unlike MCH, their shots would have cast times.
    (7)
    * The sad thing is that FFXIV turned RDM into a turret, and people think that's what it's supposed to be. It's supposed to combine sword and magic into something more, not spend the bulk of gameplay spamming spells and jump into melee for only 3 GCDs before scurrying back to the back line like good little casters.
    * Design ideas:
    Red Mage - COMPLETE (https://tinyurl.com/y6tsbnjh), Chemist - Second Pass (https://tinyurl.com/ssuog88), Thief - First Pass (https://tinyurl.com/vdjpkoa), Rune Fencer - First Pass (https://tinyurl.com/y3fomdp2)

  4. #24
    Player
    Archwizard's Avatar
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    Feb 2019
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    A café at the edge of the universe
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    Character
    Archwizard Drake
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Duelle View Post
    My go-to's for that reason are Chemist and Mystic.
    And if you could tell me how either one would work instead of just giving names, I might concede you have a point.

    For instance, what I'm reading on Tactics' Mystic is purely a status effect-oriented job based around sapping. While my Necromancer concept used the same concept of draining enemies, it followed up with the ability to transfer that life elsewhere; basically everything else about Mystic is either CCs unusable in a raid environment, or damage-oriented.

    You're gonna want to define "generic". I mean, it should be able to fulfill the things you expect out of a healer (restore HP, remove debuffs, maybe a party buff or two depending on where you want to take it).
    The point I was trying to make is that they could make any healer -- literally, any -- change its cast animations to a bottle throw and slap the name "Chemist" on it, because without the connection to consumables, it's just a name and aesthetic. There are no mechanics unique to Chemist besides Mix.

    You illustrated exactly this yourself when you used Astrologian as an example:

    The devs had only Celestial Stasis/Galaxy Stop to go with for AST, yet they were able to build a healer out of it (at the expense of Time Mage, but something's gotta give). I think they're more than capable of doing something for Chemist as well.
    And you'll note that Celestial Stasis is nothing like the iteration from Tactics, being a revival skill instead of a time stop. Meanwhile, the rest of the "Astrologer" moveset is entirely physical, save for an Esuna reskin.
    Somehow I doubt "Salve" was considered enough reason to justify introducing it here as a healer. Particularly when AST's own Esuna clone was called "Exalted Detriment", and Astrologer's physical moves greatly outnumbered it.

    FFXIV's Astrologian has more derivation from Time Mage, Gambler, and even Chemist in its abilities than from "Astrologer", to the point I would call it a completely separate job from what's presented in Tactics and closer to a renamed Time Mage.
    To introduce Time Mage at this point as a separate job from AST just because nobody has Haste yet for very good balance-related reasons... would be like introducing Chemist as a separate healer now just because nobody has Mix for balance-related reasons.

    Chemists carry several mixing tools that help them perform their job as field medics. At the risk of using a concept that sounds borrowed from MCH, these tools have limited energy that recharges over time naturally. So gameplay would involve using heals and other abilities efficiently while ensuring your Tool Energy (for lack of better terminology) doesn't bottom out, because if it does energy recovery gets a penalty until your energy hits around 25-30%. Needless to say, you'd get some abilities to manipulate or help with energy recovery.
    Quote Originally Posted by Archwizard View Post
    And while you could theoretically build an alternate resource just to not have to use MP, then you run into the question of whether or not said resource would be affected by Piety -- if no, that becomes a dead stat for the job, and if yes, you've put the devs through the work of reskinning MP just to say it doesn't use MP.
    Offensively, CHM would deal damage with a modified firearm (this part is tricky because creating a distinction from MCH would be a problem) that shoots cast iron bullets but can be loaded with poison syringes and such. Unlike MCH, their shots would have cast times.
    Side-note, and said at the risk of getting side-tracked by having someone erroneously accuse me of using this as some weak justification for my stance, in spite of literally everything else I've said to back my position otherwise:

    You ever notice how the only jobs that have ranged weapons are Ranged DPS? Casters don't, and even while RDM uses a rapier, one would think having Scathe be an auto-attack for BLM would be obvious. Healers don't; even Astrologian has to slash people with their cards from close-up, instead of throwing them like Urianger is fond of.
    I suspect this has something to do with not wanting to add auto-attack damage to the roles' repertoire in order to increase the value of GCD damage, particularly since healers are expected to switch targets frequently to do their job and casters are expected to... well, cast.

    But also, as Shurrikhan has pointed out many times before, simple guns don't exactly have a lot of payload. And as you yourself pointed out, distinction from MCH would be problematic, especially with their guns getting larger and larger, GNB already stepping to them, and ShB making a point of expanding some weapontypes (ie giving WAR a hammer and BLM a unique scythe).
    Unless we end up with someone who has dual pistols like Merlwyb (which, I would add before you start, would mean no free hands for mixing or tossing chemicals), it would be difficult to push another gun-toter at this point in the game.
    (1)
    Last edited by Archwizard; 11-18-2019 at 11:53 AM.

  5. #25
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
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    Sep 2011
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    12,863
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Vendalwind View Post
    Also on the subject of Nin as Hybrid. I wasn't clear. Actually i failed entirely to say what I wanted.
    Just as Phys ranged and caster hold range in common I would want the hybrid to hold melee in common. IE not be a perfect 33 33 33 mix or 50 50 mix. but still primarily melee based but with elements that made them either: more immobile as a caster would be, or able to maintain good uptime at range.

    So it would have been better for me to say Hybrid-Melee.
    In terms of composition, though, we only really have two main types, with at best two sub-types within each: Melee, Flexible Melee, Ranged, and (Especially) Mobile Ranged.

    The latter of each pair only offers a fight-specific chance at an already situational advantage. In any other fight, they are effectively still just Melee and Ranged, and separated only by where they are permitted to preposition for certain mechanics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vendalwind View Post
    And when people expect less of the devs less will be given. and homogenization will occur more-so in large.
    If your point here is that we should expect more, and should not be willing to rule out a possibility just because of past failings on the devs' part, I'd of course have to agree. However, I don't see where Archwizard has suggested otherwise except as tangential to his larger point: a toolkit should be given to whichever role best allows for its full use. Thus far, I have to agree with him that a supportive Ranged allows for more use of its kit and themes than would a Healer, even if I'd rather hold off the job -- as with many others -- until such time as the game actually allows for hybrids, if ever the devs show even an inkling of willingness to develop in that direction.
    (2)

  6. #26
    Player
    Duelle's Avatar
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    Duelle Urelle
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Archwizard View Post
    And if you could tell me how either one would work instead of just giving names, I might concede you have a point.
    Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't aware I had to draft a design document for this discussion.

    The write up I made for Mystic a long time ago took an approach similar to AST where a concept was built upon from near scratch. In the case of Mystic, it was the theme of duality (after all, JP guides call it Ying-Yang Mage) by tying the job to XIV's own avatars of duality, Nald'thal. If I recall, the gameplay took elements from Thaumaturge gameplay but applied them to swapping between "death" (AKA dealing damage) and "life" (healing), much like how the traders represent both aspects when put together. This was during a time when Cleric Stance was still a thing and all healers were expected to use it, so I'd have to go back and rebuild it with the current design philosophies in mind.

    As for Chemist, you already have some rough ideas of how I think it could work.
    The point I was trying to make is that they could make any healer change its cast animations to a bottle throw and slap the name "Chemist" on it, because without the connection to consumables, it's just a name and aesthetic.
    That's not much of an argument, especially considering Cure, Physic and Benefic at the baseline are the same thing with different particle effects. Same goes for standard rez, standard AoE heal and standard debuff remover. And as I said, consumables mean nothing in context of class design here, because if we suddenly care about consumables we'd have to put that burden on several current jobs for the sake of consistency. I'm sure MCHs would love to have bag space occupied by bullet pouches (or perhaps oils/batteries for their rooks and queens), BRDs with arrow quivers, NIN with ninjutsu tools and so on. Consumables are one of those all-or-nothing things; either everyone in the roster has to use consumables where applicable (with all the problems that invites), or we move on from consumables in search of ways to make the job work.
    There are no mechanics unique to Chemist besides Mix.
    Which at most is a hurdle to overcome and means you're gonna have to expand of what makes the job tick. As I mentioned before, AST in FF Tactics was limited to just Galaxy Stop because Olan Durai was a guest character in one mission, but that didn't stop the FFXIV devs from adding things to it and adjusting how the concept worked to make a healer out of it. Thus my point that the same could be done with Chemist stands.
    And while you could theoretically build an alternate resource just to not have to use MP, then you run into the question of whether or not said resource would be affected by Piety -- if no, that becomes a dead stat for the job, and if yes, you've put the devs through the work of reskinning MP just to say it doesn't use MP.
    You mean like all those other resources the devs made up for every job in the game, regardless of whether they were needed (see: PLD)? Somehow giving one to a potential healer becomes too much work for the devs? Really?

    As I said in my prior post, stat-wise I'd just put it on Aiming gear and call it a day. Putting a non-magical healer on magical healer gear makes little sense and would indeed lead to wasted/dead stats. I'm sure there'd be loot drama, but the only alternative I can come up with is giving healer gear the ARR MNK gear treatment where it had two main stats (STR and DEX in the case of MNK gear) to accommodate the newcomer NIN. An alternative alternative would be having Piety work differently for this new job. Off the top of my head, have it modify ability recast timers (with diminishing returns) or reduce how much Tool Energy is consumed by abilities. This leaves us with weird nomenclature, but my first choice would be just putting CHM on Aiming gear.
    You ever notice how the only jobs that have ranged weapons are Ranged DPS? Casters don't, and even while RDM uses a rapier, one would think having Scathe be an auto-attack for BLM would be obvious. Healers don't; even Astrologian has to slash people with their cards from close-up, instead of throwing them like Urianger is fond of.

    I suspect this has something to do with not wanting to add auto-attack damage to the roles' repertoire in order to increase the value of GCD damage, particularly since healers are expected to switch targets frequently to do their job and casters are expected to... well, cast.
    I was thinking about mentioning this when I made up that suggestion for Chemist, but one of the things about their weapon would be the inability to deal auto attacks. Assuming we left everything else alone, the weapon would simply be unable to do AAs and instead damage would entirely come from abilities. As for concerns of firearm size and payload, you could also change the weapon to something that cannot be quickly reloaded but shoots a bigger payload, further justifying why CHM wouldn't be able to auto-attack from range.

    An alternative would be the job having a mallet as its main weapon (or perhaps a small crowbar-like weapon that is a sort of main key/lever to operate the medic tools CHM uses), and use something akin to the syringer from Fallout 4 for poison/tranq darts and launching catalysts. Yet another alternative would be going with a different ranged weapon; non-mechanical crossbows are still available, as are combat slingshots (bonus being that then the job could lob tar bombs that can be ignited with a catalyst, healing "grenades" that create a mist that restores HP, vials that release Pluto vapors to fortify allies and so on).
    (6)
    * The sad thing is that FFXIV turned RDM into a turret, and people think that's what it's supposed to be. It's supposed to combine sword and magic into something more, not spend the bulk of gameplay spamming spells and jump into melee for only 3 GCDs before scurrying back to the back line like good little casters.
    * Design ideas:
    Red Mage - COMPLETE (https://tinyurl.com/y6tsbnjh), Chemist - Second Pass (https://tinyurl.com/ssuog88), Thief - First Pass (https://tinyurl.com/vdjpkoa), Rune Fencer - First Pass (https://tinyurl.com/y3fomdp2)

  7. #27
    Player
    Brandedblade's Avatar
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    Limsa Lominsa
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    Character
    Gunther Frey
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Considering the fact RDM wears alot of long flowy mage robes by virtue of being a caster, chemist wearing healer robes is the last thing on my mind concerning coming up with design ideas. As far as the auto attack thing they could either just program chemist guns to scale off mind. Or give them a level 1 trait (Chemical Rounds is the name that comes to mind) that clearly states their auto attacks deal incredibly low potency unaspected damage and has the appropriate range.
    (3)

  8. #28
    Player
    Archwizard's Avatar
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    Archwizard Drake
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Duelle View Post
    Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't aware I had to draft a design document for this discussion.
    I'm not asking for an entire design document, I'm asking for literally any specifics about what the job actually does or how it plays.

    That's not much of an argument, especially considering Cure, Physic and Benefic at the baseline are the same thing with different particle effects. Same goes for standard rez, standard AoE heal and standard debuff remover.
    Quote Originally Posted by Archwizard View Post
    There's a certain degree of "same-y" expected when it comes to healers, insofar as all require a certain number of archetypal skills in order to keep up with encounter mechanics. Sharing gear, role actions (regardless of animations), and general limitations is something that can generally be accepted for basically any other role with regards to balance, because to go through the hoops of avoiding them would be purely for the sake of avoiding them.

    My concern with Chemist is that creating a separate job that utilizes the same mechanics as another existing job -- particularly in examples that mention AST cards or seals, where the example is even within the same role -- makes that job redundant and offers nothing to the playstyle.
    Which at most is a hurdle to overcome and means you're gonna have to expand of what makes the job tick. As I mentioned before, AST in FF Tactics was limited to just Galaxy Stop because Olan Durai was a guest character in one mission, but that didn't stop the FFXIV devs from adding things to it and adjusting how the concept worked to make a healer out of it.
    You're talking in circles and ignoring my responses. I already explained that 14's AST is related to Astrologer from FF Tactics in name only. Stop acting like they magically conjured another dozen or so additives for it from thin air, when you know they just renamed Time Mage.

    You mean like all those other resources the devs made up for every job in the game, regardless of whether they were needed (see: PLD)? Somehow giving one to a potential healer becomes too much work for the devs? Really?
    The unique job resources are built resources that determine the flow of the rotation. MP is used as a spender and limiter for each job that uses it, so that they're not just reliant on CDs for their strongest heals. In the hands of a WHM it keeps them from just spamming Cure II/III, Medica II and Raise, and encourages them to use more efficient forms of healing like Cure and the Afflatus line. Also, jobs in other roles don't have their spender resource gain determined by an unavoidable gear stat -- partly because TP was removed.

    As I said in my prior post, stat-wise I'd just put it on Aiming gear and call it a day. Putting a non-magical healer on magical healer gear makes little sense and would indeed lead to wasted/dead stats.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandedblade View Post
    Considering the fact RDM wears alot of long flowy mage robes by virtue of being a caster, chemist wearing healer robes is the last thing on my mind concerning coming up with design ideas. As far as the auto attack thing they could either just program chemist guns to scale off mind. Or give them a level 1 trait (Chemical Rounds is the name that comes to mind) that clearly states their auto attacks deal incredibly low potency unaspected damage and has the appropriate range.
    Somehow two mutually exclusive, conflicting arguments that are treated as supporting one another. But for another point, that is one of the weakest parts of the opening argument to get hung up on, since I already covered both.

    I was thinking about mentioning this when I made up that suggestion for Chemist, but one of the things about their weapon would be the inability to deal auto attacks.
    Then why would it even have a ranged weapon.

    Look, here's the problem: You are still arguing aesthetics and cosmetics as a response to lack of mechanics.

    An alternative would be the job having a mallet as its main weapon (or perhaps a small crowbar-like weapon that is a sort of main key/lever to operate the medic tools CHM uses)
    Surprised it took this long to get around to just saying "give them a hammer since MCH doesn't use one."
    (1)
    Last edited by Archwizard; 11-19-2019 at 02:35 PM.

  9. #29
    Player
    Kabooa's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
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    4,391
    Character
    Jace Ossura
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 100
    I tried a chemist healer, but much of what it utilizes can translate into a DPS type job.

    The Raw Dump

    Job Name: Ironsight
    Job Weapon: Firebrand Rifle

    I. Background/System Changes

    Spellspeed and Skillspeed are consolidated. The haste scaling is unchanged, but a new facet is added to it - Cooldown Reduction, at about 133% the value of the haste. (AKA 15% haste also includes 20% Cooldown Reduction)


    II. identity

    The Ironsight is a seasoned marksman. They travel alone, selling their services to the highest bidders. Where a hired blade is meant to muscle or intimidate, the Ironsight is paid off for insurance, far away and hidden, providing a quick and clean excision to ensure the client walks away from whatever business they were doing. From the thick forests of Gridania to the dark corners of Ul'dah, many a polite but terse transactions are made, knowing full well a bead is drawn upon those involved, from in front and behind.

    Ironsights are versatile and excel when executing a well thought out plan of action.




    III. Unique Mechanics

    The Ironsight utilizes a variety of ammunition types, each one changing their immediate focus for a short duration. Ironsights come from many walks of life - battle, medicine, exploration, and have designed their ammunition to fit their needs.

    As ishgardian technology advances and spreads throughout the land, Ironsights have adapted to the newly developed aetherotransformers, keeping specialized and compact versions that allow them to lob out balls of aether with varied, predetermined effects.

    A skilled and varied Marksman, Ironsights are equally adept on the move as they are when able to settle to a perch and ready their shots.


    IV. Action and Trait List [1-80]

    Flick Shot [Level 1]
    Weaponskill
    Range: 25y
    Cost Optional: 1 Ammunition
    Effect: A quick shot. Deals potency. Gains potency when ammo is consumed.

    Medicinal Cartridge [Level 4]
    Ability
    Recast: Short
    Effect: Loads six medicinal shells into your rifle. Your Shot actions instead target allies for healing potency.

    Ammo Belt [Level 4]
    Gauge
    The Ammo Belt is now trackable. A six-slot gauge with your current loaded ammo is shown, along with the recast of unloaded Ammo.

    Aimed Shot [Level 8]
    Weaponskill
    Cast: 3.5s
    Range: 25y
    Cost Optional: 1 Ammunition
    Effect: A well aimed shot. Deals high potency. Deals higher potency with ammo consumed.

    Blast Cartridge [Level 12]
    Ability
    Recast: Medium
    Effect: Loads six explosive ammo, causing shots to deal 50% of their potency to nearby targets.

    Choco-Bomb [Level 15]
    Ability
    Range: 25y
    Cost: Chocobo Aether
    Effect: Lob a ball of aether, tuned to the same signature that a friendly Chocobo sends towards well liked friends. Heals for medium potency in a 10y radius.

    Bandolier [Level 15]
    Gauge
    Your current aetherotransformer status is shown here.
    Chocobo Recharge time: 15 seconds.

    Resuscitate [Level 15]
    Action
    25y
    8s Cast
    Effect: Raise target ally with a well placed healing bullet.

    What's Good For the Goose [Level 18]
    Trait
    Effect: When healing a target with Shots, you heal for 50% of that amount.

    Buckshot [Level 20]
    Weaponskill
    Range: 5y
    Cost: At least 1 Ammunition
    Effect: Expends all remaining ammo. Deals medium potency. Deals more potency per ammo consumed.

    Tuck and Roll [Level 24]
    Ability
    Recast: Medium
    Effect: Dive forward 10y out of harm's way.

    Vigor Cartridge [Level 30]
    Ability
    Recast: Medium
    Effect: Loads 3 specialized ammo. Shots target allies to heal and reduce the target's active cooldowns by 10 seconds over the next 30 seconds.

    Cryo-Bomb [Level 32]
    Ability
    25y
    Cost: Bomb Aether - Recharge time, 60 seconds.
    Effect: Fling a ball of aether that explodes on enemies in 10y, dealing moderate potency and inflicting the Slow Status for 15 seconds.

    One For The Money[Level 35]
    Ability
    Recast: Medium
    Cost: 1 Ammunition
    Effect: Grants yourself 15% increased Haste and Cooldown Reduction for 24 seconds.

    Embedding Shot[Level 40]
    Weaponskill
    1.5s cast
    25y
    Cost Optional: 1 Ammunition
    Effect: A careful shot that embeds the shell into the target without unleashing the stored effect. A target can only have one shell in them per Ironsight at a single time.

    Two For the Show[Level 40]
    Ability
    Recast: Short
    Effect: Detonates all embedded shells. Uses the potency value of the previously used weaponskill.

    Sidearm [Level 45]
    Ability
    Recast: Short
    Effect: Sidearm's first activation loads it with a shell that is the same as the currently loaded shell. Sidearm's second activation fires the round at moderate potency to your Focus Target, then goes on cooldown.

    Pulse Cartridge[Level 50]
    Ability
    Effect: Loads 1 Pulse ammo into your rifle. This cartridge charges as other cartridges are used and emptied. Four cartridges will fully charge Pulse Cartridge.

    All shots are morphed into Hypershot.

    Hypershot
    Weaponskill
    25y
    Effect: Strikes all enemies in a 25y x 5y line for high potency and heals all allies for high potency.

    Shell Bomb [Level 52]
    Ability
    25y
    Cost: Adamantoise Aether - 60s Recharge
    Effect: Lob a ball of aether at the target area, throwing up a protective bubble for 10 seconds. Allies within gain a stacking damage shield every 3 seconds they aren't running.

    Double Tap [Level 54]
    Trait
    Effect: The last ammo in Blaster, Medicinal, and Vigor cartridge causes the weaponskill using it to fire twice. The second shot deals reduced potency.

    Three To Get Ready [Level 56]
    Trait
    Effect: One For The Money can be reactivated within 3 seconds to reduce ammunition down to the last round, granting additional duration per ammo consumed, up to 45 seconds maximum.

    Chocobo Mist[Level 58]
    Ability
    25y
    Cost: Chocobo Aether
    Effect: Lob a ball of aether, coating the ground in a fine mist for 6 seconds. Those in the mist and who pass through the mist gain a low potency HoT for 30 seconds.

    Scatter Shot [Level 60]
    Ability
    Recast: Long
    Effect: The next shot will target all applicable targets within 10y. Does not apply to Hypershot.

    Mighty Serum[Level 62]
    Ability
    25y
    Cost: Adamantoise Aether
    Effect: Grant ally target 30% damage reduction against the next attack against them within 6 seconds. The target moves 75% slower for the duration.

    Four To Go[Level 64]
    Trait
    Effect: Shells on targets through Embedded Shot gain 5% potency every 3 seconds they are on the target, up to 30% more potency.

    Volatile Aura[Level 66]
    Ability
    25y
    Cost: Bomb Aether
    Effect: Target ally gains explosive aether for the next 15seconds. Upon using a damaging Ability, the aether explodes to deal 50% of the potency of the Ally's ability to enemies within 10y.

    First Responder[Level 68]
    Trait
    Effect: Medicinal and Vigor Cartridge's first shot is always a Critical Hit.

    Crisis Management [Level 70]
    Ability
    Recast: Long
    Effect: Increases the healing potency of your Shots by 20%. Sidearm is considered to be armed with Medicinal ammo, doesn't require loading, and has its recast reduced to 3 seconds. These effects last for 20 seconds.

    Double Bandolier[Level 72]
    Trait
    Effect: Chocobo, Bomb, and Adamantois aether can store up to two charges.

    Trick Shot [Level 74]
    Weaponskill
    25y
    Cost: 2 Ammunition
    Effect: Hits your target and your focus target for moderate potency. Your Focus target is healed if an ally, damaged if an enemy. If both shots hit the same target, they occur at reduced potency.

    Float Like A Dimorph[Level 76]
    Trait
    Effect: Tuck and Roll grants immunity to most detrimental ground based effects for 3 seconds.

    Megalixir[Level 78]
    Ability
    25y
    Cost: 1 Chocobo, 1 Adamantoise, 1 Bomb aether.
    Effect: Throws a high density ball of aether at target ally, healing them and all allies within 10y for high potency.

    Cold Calculation[Level 80]
    Ability
    Recast: Medium
    Effect: Increases the cast time of the next Shot by 1.5 seconds, but increases its potency by 50%.




    Removing / adjusting the healing oriented abilities and tuning them to be damage oriented ones, and you have a stim-giving, potion chugging, grenade throwing, shot-aiming floppy-hat wearing adventurer.
    (2)

  10. #30
    Player
    Archwizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    A café at the edge of the universe
    Posts
    1,130
    Character
    Archwizard Drake
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kabooa View Post
    I tried a chemist healer, but much of what it utilizes can translate into a DPS type job.

    Removing / adjusting the healing oriented abilities and tuning them to be damage oriented ones, and you have a stim-giving, potion chugging, grenade throwing, shot-aiming floppy-hat wearing adventurer.
    I mean to be fair, someone would probably argue the same case for any other healer ("remove the heals and it's just a DPS"), but upon reading the concept over... yeah, that's a lot of DPS skills.
    Like, most healers have the same three basic attacks, an oGCD and a DPS cooldown, filling the rest of the space with healing CDs. This concept is a lot more DPS skills than that, to the point I'd almost straight-up call it a Musketeer concept.

    I appreciate the effort made, and the illustration of my original point.
    (0)

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