PLD Raise Spell in 6.0?

[Brightshadow]

If PLD got a raise, it would be come REQUIRED to bring for all raids.

This is a terrible idea.

How so? Because last I checked RDM isn't brought to all raids and if you raise enough your DPS is so low that you will wipe. I also added drawbacks for using it. This spell is mostly for small parties like for stuff like deep dungeons and leveling dungeons. And of course for progression parties but all raids have enrages and two healers that can already raise.

I honestly love how people say this is a terrible idea without describing situations where it would be OP. If a PLD ends up raising in a full party the chances of success are still like 1% since my version would consume all your MP.

Raise doesn't belong on a job that uses free combos most of the time.

Its not free, my version consumes all your MP, it takes 8s of your DPS combo or your divine seal cooldown, and it doesn't allow clemency till you get 2k MP.

The reasons for asking for it tend to be much poorer than those shooting it down. And It's not like this is the first time it's come up for debate.

How so? As I said people keep saying it's a horrible idea but without examples to support where it would be OP.

The reality is that if PLD raises in Relevent content you will wipe due to enrage. This is more for progression and small parties.

If you need a PLD to raise you, you deserve to wipe for being bad at the game.

Edit: why the hell does it risk spending possibly four times the amount of mana than any other job to raise.

To balance it out.

If any class survives after a major party wipe or screw up it's definitely PLD, giving them a revive would be a tad broken from my experience.

Finally someone who presents a situation and doesn't just claim it's OP. While a valid point my version consumes all your MP, and the revived member still wouldn't have enough MP to raise for around 5-10s so your chances of success are still very low, and most likely enrage will kill you if everyone in your party is dead.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

How so? Because last I checked RDM isn't brought to all raids and if you raise enough your DPS is so low that you will wipe. I also added drawbacks for using it. This spell is mostly for small parties like for stuff like deep dungeons and leveling dungeons. And of course for progression parties but all raids have enrages and two healers that can already raise.

I honestly love how people say this is a terrible idea without describing situations where it would be OP. If a PLD end up raising in a full party the chances of success are still like 1% since my version would consume all your MP.

So PLD who is in a really good spot now in terms of balancing damage versus utility as well as the tanks being balanced better than they've ever been and you wanna screw that to fill some random view you possess of the job. The only PLD that had a raise in FF was in FF XI which is an outlier in the line of Paladins that came before it.

PLD already makes subtle sacrifices for it's utility, which is nicely done by Square Enix. But you want to upset this balance, by slashing it's overall damage for no justifiable reason other than you "would love it" but give no actual worthwhile reasoning to it and then slap a huge and heavy handed penalty to top it off, as if PLD isn't getting cucked enough by losing damage simply by having a raise, it will be just ignored outright in every instance and its cost alone would be a detriment to the raid more than a boon, because healers and caster already have enough raises in the game at a fraction of the cost. This idea is simply just outright atrocious.

[Nedkel]

So PLD who is in a really good spot now in terms of balancing damage versus utility as well as the tanks being balanced better than they've ever been and you wanna screw that to fill some random view you possess of the job. The only PLD that had a raise in FF was in FF XI which is an outlier in the line of Paladins that came before it.

PLD already makes subtle sacrifices for it's utility, which is nicely done by Square Enix. But you want to upset this balance, by slashing it's overall damage for no justifiable reason other than you "would love it" but give no actual worthwhile reasoning to it and then slap a huge and heavy handed penalty to top it off, as if PLD isn't getting cucked enough by losing damage simply by having a raise, it will be just ignored outright in every instance and its cost alone would be a detriment to the raid more than a boon, because healers and caster already have enough raises in the game at a fraction of the cost. This idea is simply just outright atrocious.

You are overreacting here.

Giving pld a raise would not change the balance at all, maybe pld would be played a little more nothing else. Tanks are balanced in terms of DPS only and thats because they are direct copy-paste of one another. Giving each tank some identity wont hurt anyone, balance will not change.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

You are overreacting here.

Giving pld a raise would not change the balance at all, maybe pld would be played a little more nothing else. Tanks are balanced in terms of DPS only and thats because they are direct copy-paste of one another. Giving each tank some identity wont hurt anyone, balance will not change.

LUL there's this thing called Raise Tax, please consult a SMN or RDM about it.

[Nedkel]

LUL there's this thing called Raise Tax, please consult a SMN or RDM about it.

This is not set in stone, summoner had raise before has it today and it was and is one of the highest dps out there.
The tax is as real as the developers thinks its neccessary to make it a tax.

A hefty 100% mp cost would be enough tax imo, its not a thing that will magically increase your groups dps and increase chances to finish hard content, its just a tool that could help when playing with newbies in casual content. In savage if you are pld and you are forced to used it, then its gg anyway and it wont save the run no matter what.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

This is not set in stone, summoner had raise before has it today and it was and is one of the highest dps out there.
The tax is as real as the developers thinks its neccessary to make it a tax.

A hefty 100% mp cost would be enough tax imo, its not a thing that will magically increase your groups dps and increase chances to finish hard content, its just a tool that could help when playing with newbies in casual content. In savage if you are pld and you are forced to used it, then its gg anyway and it wont save the run no matter what.

I mean the head theorycrafter of SMN even wrote up a post stating SMN got overbuffed, which most likely will see some potency nerfs in the next job adjustments. You still have RDM that is held back in DPS because it has a raise.

you do realise you most likely won't gain access to this combat raise in newbie content, right?

And let's face it there is gonna be a DPS penalty in there that is not needed to be there in the first, because PLD does not need a combat raise.

In savage you will be penalised for having a skill you won't have a use for and most likely will not save a run during prog.

[Nedkel]

I mean the head theorycrafter of SMN even wrote up a post stating SMN got overbuffed, which most likely will see some potency nerfs in the next job adjustments. You still have RDM that is held back in DPS because it has a raise.

you do realise you most likely won't gain access to this combat raise in newbie content, right?

And let's face it there is gonna be a DPS penalty in there that is not needed to be there in the first, because PLD does not need a combat raise.

In savage you will be penalised for having a skill you won't have a use for and most likely will not save a run during prog.

RDM is lower because something has to be, summoner is on top of dmg charts and it was on top for a big part of stormblood expansion as well.

Raise on PLD is not going to save a hard content run, if you add 100% MP cost it will mean that PLD sacrifices his own DPS to raise someone and it is more than enough for it. There is no "magical tax" in balance, otherwise healers wouldnt deal more dmg than tanks and summoner would be at the rock bottom. Summoner is and was allowed to be high dps because using raise is already a dps cost on itself.

Raise on PLD would not hurt balance at all, there is no reason why would a dev specially nerf a PLD for having a raise when they could give it a big cost so actually using it will cost him a DPS.

Again, giving pld a raise wont change a thing, only make PLD less dreadful when doing casual stuff.

[VenKitsune]

How so? Because last I checked RDM isn't brought to all raids and if you raise enough your DPS is so low that you will wipe. I also added drawbacks for using it. This spell is mostly for small parties like for stuff like deep dungeons and leveling dungeons. And of course for progression parties but all raids have enrages and two healers that can already raise.

I honestly love how people say this is a terrible idea without describing situations where it would be OP. If a PLD ends up raising in a full party the chances of success are still like 1% since my version would consume all your MP.

You're kidding right?

RDM isnt brought because it has less personal damage, and similar utility to SMN. Raises on DPS is fine because even missing a single GCD to raid someone is a HUGE loss in terms of overall group damage, they are, afterall, one of the 4 "damage dealers" - Tanks meanwhile, do less damage and them missing a GCD isnt going to necessarily mean you wipe to enrage even if gear is tight.

So lets have a look at PLD.

Amazing group utility? Check.
High damage? Check.
A TEN SECOND FULL INVULNERABILITY.

So...They already have some of the highest damage, some of the best group utility, and arguably the best invlun skill on paper (ignoring the cooldown timer for a moment)....And you want to give them a RAISE!?
PLD would become always the one to raise because it would be the most optimal - That'd make PLD not only required to be brought in prog, but also make it terrible to play. We need to encourage people to start playing tank, not alienate those already playing it.