Thread: PLD Raise Spell in 6.0?

Originally Posted by Brightshadow

I respect your opinion you simply could have said no thanks I would prefer PLD to not have a raise because it would probably get a DPS nerf, but you didn't say that you just talked about how if a PLD raises you it's bad, and why it has a huge MP cost.

well yea it is, like PLD having to raise would mean being the last man alive or close to, and **** has already hit the fan, at which point everyone else or most people have screwed up by failure on the healers part, or by failing mechanics, i.e people being bad at the game. Honestly it would be easier to wipe and go again in every instance. We have manage to go 6 years without a combat raise on Paladin, we don't suddenly need one now.

Originally Posted by Nedkel

You are overreacting here.

Giving pld a raise would not change the balance at all, maybe pld would be played a little more nothing else. Tanks are balanced in terms of DPS only and thats because they are direct copy-paste of one another. Giving each tank some identity wont hurt anyone, balance will not change.

LUL there's this thing called Raise Tax, please consult a SMN or RDM about it.

But you are thinking of only raids, this spell will really shine in small party content.

PLD having raise not only will be a waste of space that could be used for a more usefull skill, will create balance problems for a job that have already much utility and will have a incredible high cost on your personal performance so thats means it will be incredible situational, despite the game is pretty dam easy right now on non-raid scenarios and on raid scenarios we have plenty of jobs that can cover raise much better plus having a situation when a PLD should use it will means reset the try better i don't see why PLD should be punished by having such tool on they kit but thats just my opinion.

Originally Posted by Nedkel

This is not set in stone, summoner had raise before has it today and it was and is one of the highest dps out there.
The tax is as real as the developers thinks its neccessary to make it a tax.

A hefty 100% mp cost would be enough tax imo, its not a thing that will magically increase your groups dps and increase chances to finish hard content, its just a tool that could help when playing with newbies in casual content. In savage if you are pld and you are forced to used it, then its gg anyway and it wont save the run no matter what.

I mean the head theorycrafter of SMN even wrote up a post stating SMN got overbuffed, which most likely will see some potency nerfs in the next job adjustments. You still have RDM that is held back in DPS because it has a raise.

you do realise you most likely won't gain access to this combat raise in newbie content, right?

And let's face it there is gonna be a DPS penalty in there that is not needed to be there in the first, because PLD does not need a combat raise.

In savage you will be penalised for having a skill you won't have a use for and most likely will not save a run during prog.

Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

I mean the head theorycrafter of SMN even wrote up a post stating SMN got overbuffed, which most likely will see some potency nerfs in the next job adjustments. You still have RDM that is held back in DPS because it has a raise.

you do realise you most likely won't gain access to this combat raise in newbie content, right?

And let's face it there is gonna be a DPS penalty in there that is not needed to be there in the first, because PLD does not need a combat raise.

In savage you will be penalised for having a skill you won't have a use for and most likely will not save a run during prog.

RDM is lower because something has to be, summoner is on top of dmg charts and it was on top for a big part of stormblood expansion as well.

Raise on PLD is not going to save a hard content run, if you add 100% MP cost it will mean that PLD sacrifices his own DPS to raise someone and it is more than enough for it. There is no "magical tax" in balance, otherwise healers wouldnt deal more dmg than tanks and summoner would be at the rock bottom. Summoner is and was allowed to be high dps because using raise is already a dps cost on itself.

Raise on PLD would not hurt balance at all, there is no reason why would a dev specially nerf a PLD for having a raise when they could give it a big cost so actually using it will cost him a DPS.

Again, giving pld a raise wont change a thing, only make PLD less dreadful when doing casual stuff.

Originally Posted by Nedkel

RDM is lower because something has to be, summoner is on top of dmg charts and it was on top for a big part of stormblood expansion as well.

Raise on PLD is not going to save a hard content run, if you add 100% MP cost it will mean that PLD sacrifices his own DPS to raise someone and it is more than enough for it. There is no "magical tax" in balance, otherwise healers wouldnt deal more dmg than tanks and summoner would be at the rock bottom. Summoner is and was allowed to be high dps because using raise is already a dps cost on itself.

Raise on PLD would not hurt balance at all, there is no reason why would a dev specially nerf a PLD for having a raise when they could give it a big cost so actually using it will cost him a DPS.

Again, giving pld a raise wont change a thing, only make PLD less dreadful when doing casual stuff.

"Because something has to be" what kinda logic is that, RDM doesn't do as much damage out of casters because it can chain raise.

BLM was top dps in Alphascape and in Sigmascape BLM was also top, except for phantom train, which is due to mobility. So over half of SB BLM was top DPS. SMN was taken over BLM for the utility it brought, which helped it edge ahead of BLM.

As people have clearly pointed out it does affect balance, if paladin was the only tank with a raise, there would be no checks against it within the tank role, thus a dps penalty would be imposed. And the balance would be PLD versus the other tanks, not against other roles. PLD sacrificing all of its MP is a pathetic attempt at a trade off.

PLD isn't dreadful in casual content at least as far as I'm concerned but that's strictly a subjective argument.

Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

If any class survives after a major party wipe or screw up it's definitely PLD, giving them a revive would be a tad broken from my experience.

Probably why I would expect it to never happen. Imagine, by the time this situation arises, you've likely got some LB gauge built up. If you're at LB3, suddenly PLD being able to revive a healer can result in the entire party back on their feet. That's a bit ridiculous for a tank role. Even if it's just healer LB1 or 2, those come with an MP boost, allowing more raises.

On a DPS, the tradeoff is that the DPS is still squishy. In situations where RDM/SMN are the last ones standing, they won't be standing for long. PLD can have enough to keep themselves going by comparison. Completely broken.