Can we please put Coils of Bahamut in normal raid roulette?

[VenKitsune]

No, sorry, this is a terrible idea to put coils in the raid roulette.


Coils are actually difficult - Back in 2.x (ARR) there was no normal mode and savage mode for raids - Coils was one difficulty for midcore raiders and above. Compare that to Alexander and Omega and Eden normal, which are designed to be clearable by even the greenest of players, and there would be a massive disconnect between difficulty levels. There was a "savage" second coils, but this was akin to what ultimate is today, designed to be extremely difficult to beat and take months for any group to achieve world first, which it did.

This isnt some "Respecc content" meme, but Coils really should be respected for what it was at the time. Coils is still regarded by many to be the best raid this game has had to date, and throwing it in to a roulette would anger a lot of those players. That would be like adding Alexander and Omega savage to raid roulette which, if they're going to do that, would also anger people. Why spend weeks or months at a time learning a tier in one expansion, only for it to become DF content a few years down the line?

Sorry, but yea, very stupid idea.

My argument for coils exists for all fights with T5, T9, and T13 being the only fights that cannot outright be zerged though contrary to popular belief, T5 is very close to being a zerg fight, doesnt even have a party wipe mechanic, only individual one shots, T9 being the only one you currently have to watch a mechanic for (Golem phase specifically), and T13 towers, twisters tethers. Every other fight is fairly a zerg fest fight and most mechanics/combos are either failed, ignored or never seen.

Haha you gotta be trolling, right?

T1 - Dooable, as it should be, its the very first turn, designed for fairly fresh 50s to be an introduction to raids regardless of previous experience in MMOs
T2 - Has Enrage strat still, but that would also require someone to know about that strat. If they dont? Prepare for your average DF group to wipe for a full 90 minutes on allagan rot and vote disband.
T3 - Erm....
T4 - With Echo, yes this is one of the few fights that can be zerged through.
T5 - Divebombs, Twisters, Adds, Fetter puddles. One wrong move can spell a wipe.
T6 - I dont know why you expect the average DF group to have the coordination required for placing the briars, or even what to do with them, or how to deal with the bees or slimes.
T7 - *Whole DF group gets petrified by one person making a mistake, oneshot by cyclops.*
T8 - The towers actually require cordination - Even unsynced at lvl 80 those things can still oneshot you unless you kill the boss quick enough, and if a lvl 80 in current gear can barely do it solo, i dont know how you expect 8x synced lvl 50's to do it, especially as more mechanics appear with more people.
T9 - Yea...No.
T10 - Heat Lightning, wild charge...Needing cordinated stacking and tanking and positioning should be enough to shoot this one down to not be possible in your everyday roulette
T11 - Once again, needs coordinated positioning.
T12 - I dont know how you expect DF to be able to deal with the puddles, Bennus, fountains and all the debuffs etc.
T13 - LOL

So in conclusion...Maybe 3 or 4 of the 12 would be possible in DF, and also have similar difficulty with echo/nerfs as Alexander/Omega/Eden NORMAL MODE, that's what you have to remember, this is NORMAL RAIDS ROULETTE, not SAVAGE RAIDS ROULETTE. The difficulty has to be similar, or people would just leave if they get a fight that needs similar or greater coordination than your average extreme trial...and if they have to exclude even a single fight from the roulette, then what is the point in adding it? The roulettes exist as a way to find players for old content, if they didn't exist then people queueing for lvl 50-70 24 man raids, or lvl 60-70 8 man normal raids would be sitting in queue for hours. If you want to find a group for old savage or extreme content, that's what PF is for. If they add coils to normal raid roulette, they might aswell by that logic add in Alexander and omega savage to it aswell, because that's old content too of a similar difficulty level.

[Nestama]

As a heads up, the Renauds don't do instant death damage any more. The only threat from T7 is how many damage up stacks she gets from being yelled/shrieked at and if the ranged DPS are standing too close to each other and if the melee DPS are petrified when Melusine uses her AoE.

[Havenchild]

snip

Based on everything you've said, I can confirm you haven't actually tried any of these fights in 5.0.

Majority of the things you mentioned, you don't actually see / don't go off in the fights. I mean the fact you think T2 is hurting anyone is kinda proof of that. T7 Renauds haven't one shotted since pre Final Coil. Continue the fear-mongering.

[Hasrat]

Y'know, all this discussion on difficulty, and we haven't even stopped to consider the additional reason this shouldn't be added to roulettes. Cutscenes. Forget fights being too difficult, players will absolutely definitely bail just to not be stuck waiting for others watching the loooong scenes before some of the raids even start.

[Noitems]

Y'know, all this discussion on difficulty, and we haven't even stopped to consider the additional reason this shouldn't be added to roulettes. Cutscenes. Forget fights being too difficult, players will absolutely definitely bail just to not be stuck waiting for others watching the loooong scenes before some of the raids even start.

The Bahamut cutscene in 13 I believe is almost four minutes long or somewhere in that ballpark. It was rough even running it for the first time since you want to jump right in but everyone else is still in it.

[Noitems]

While we're at it, can we put Urth's Fount in trial roulette?

It's alright, just run Mentor rou and you'll get that place more then you ever imagined.

I got it three days in a row once, all sprouts, co-tank ran in to pull using all of their CD's and died within the first 12 seconds. At some points I'd rather just get Praetorium or Castrum just to zen out from the frustration.

[Videra]

Based on everything you've said, I can confirm you haven't actually tried any of these fights in 5.0.

Majority of the things you mentioned, you don't actually see / don't go off in the fights. I mean the fact you think T2 is hurting anyone is kinda proof of that. T7 Renauds haven't one shotted since pre Final Coil. Continue the fear-mongering.

Do you earnestly trust the zoomers in DF to be able to handle golem placements or elemental dance in T9? There's your reason not to put Coil into DF.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

Based on everything you've said, I can confirm you haven't actually tried any of these fights in 5.0.

Majority of the things you mentioned, you don't actually see / don't go off in the fights. I mean the fact you think T2 is hurting anyone is kinda proof of that. T7 Renauds haven't one shotted since pre Final Coil. Continue the fear-mongering.

Based on all you said, I can confirm you haven't run duties without your friends or FC mates for years.

[Vidu]

Based on everything you've said, I can confirm you haven't actually tried any of these fights in 5.0.

Majority of the things you mentioned, you don't actually see / don't go off in the fights. I mean the fact you think T2 is hurting anyone is kinda proof of that. T7 Renauds haven't one shotted since pre Final Coil. Continue the fear-mongering.

...have you done those fights in 5.0 with the "handicaps" you need to expect in your average DF-group including, but not limited to:
...people barely knowing the basics of their job
...tanks not knowing what provoke or a cooldown is
...people not knowing the mechanics of the fight
...people not speaking english or simply not reading the chat/taking advice, therefor making communication on a level thats required for those fights impossible
...people showing up undergeared, at least in critical areas - I'll give you that coil has a minimum ilvl requirement and I'm not sure how accurate that is tunes to the current level of difficulty in those fights, but I do know - and regularly see - people who "cheat" their ilvl by upgrading their right side but leaving key-pieces like the weapon at a much lower ilvl, like all poetics-accessories but a ilvl45 NQ crafted weapon.
...people with an attitude of "this needs to be faceroll easy and done in one pull", therefor not listening to any advice

I'll admit that the last - and only - time I tried those fights in DF was right when they were put there and it actually worked for T6 and 7 as I recall, because we had 7/8 people who queued knew what they were doing already.
Thats not gonna be the norm... I'll accept that the fights got nerfed - but did they seriously got nerfed so much that 8 clueless people with possibly bad/wrong gear, no way to communicate with each other and no real knowledge of their job and standard mechanics (oh, how often have I seen level 60+ people run away with stack-markers...) can beat them as easly as Alexander, Omega or Eden NM? Because I seriously doubt that. You can probably jump a lot of the more deadly mechanics if you go in with an overgeared party in which everyone knows how to play and what to do - but thats not what you can expect in DF...

[Havenchild]

but thats not what you can expect in DF...

While I understand your valid argument, I don't think any single one of those things directly matters largely because none of which you pointed out is somehow avoided in later content with similar mechanics to coil. You get the same terribles if they are gonna exist regardless and you boot/kick or disband accordingly. Here's another idea, if you and anyone was THAT worried, that it can't somehow be done, then simply implement the same lock that already exists on roulettes when new content is added, they need to beat the fight before the roulette is active. Anyone whose already did coils will be in the DF pool. Also ftr, free gear you get from MSQ already out levels coils ilvl130 cap. It's fear mongering to express that the average player on DF will both:

1) Not meet the minimum ilvl for coil
And
2) Also not be over ilvl and synced down

That's just not as common as anyone tries to point out and if you gate the roulette for those that haven't beaten it, you lose nothing as now people will simply move to unlock it again as they do every single time normals are added. What a better time then the lull of a non raid season (like now) where people can be invested into something again. These fights are fairly zerg friendly but most haven't went in recently to see that.

Based on all you said, I can confirm you haven't run duties without your friends or FC mates for years.

Nice troll. Too much incompetence though.