Can we please put Coils of Bahamut in normal raid roulette?

[Noitems]

Like none of these are overly complicated, T9, being the worst, and the fact the forum community thinks these fights are THAT difficult in 5.0 after all the nerfs/ class buffs, reflects poorly on the forum community. The average skill level of DF is not as terrible as people are claiming. For every wipe or disband there are many more clears across all content (sans savage content when first implemented but this changes over time.)

If DF can handle M/F and Eden normal, it can absolutely handle coil.

Look in turn by even suggesting we get all of Coil in raid rou, you're forcing ones like T9 to be a part of it. Giving people something like T1-4 is only giving them a snippet of the story and in turn brings more posts on here asking "Why aren't the rest of Coils in here!?!?" which then we need to have this whole conversation again about them. If you yourself have to argue that T9 is too tough for duty finder then do not be in support of Coils. You either get them all or get none. That's like if Alexander had only A1-A4 and nothing else in normal raid rou just because.

I want to state as well these rous are meant to be your daily login things, something you do each day just for the sake of it. It's not meant to be a taxing deal, it's just meant to be done at a casual pace. Even in these rous like normal raid people still abandon on O11N, O12N, and E4N. The amount of times I've been put into O12N as a party in progress was insane, because people can't actually handle the split tanking. If you're telling me these knuckleheads are the ones you may be stuck in for Coil and we have to votekick them out or leave and eat our penalty to escape is a load of bull.

If they had a specific coils rou, for the purpose of just running just that I can see that being a thing, HOWEVER the interest in that rou would be very minimal and I'm sure the majority would rather opt in for unsynced story runs instead after trying some of the fights synced. Hell a rou should be given instead to like Rival Wings instead. Something that requires more people, and is absolutely dead enough that a discord community has to bring up the slack for SE and them not making an actual rou for the damn mode for daily bonuses.

I know your heart is in the right place, I really do. But for something as casual as normal raid rou is meant to be we do not need the Coil baggage. We are not doubting the player base being able to clear this content, we are more so doubting the DF base to not clearing the content in an efficient manner as based on previous experiences between 8/24 man content and the current DF trends of like leaving after a single wipe.

I'm sure by some miracle a bunch of randos in DF would clear a fight like T9 after enough effort, however for a payout as small as normal raid rou gives and the amount of time/frustration put into just getting that win doesn't make any sense, especially when the looming thought you could do it all over again tomorrow with a new set of people sticks in your head.

[Havenchild]

snip

I understand completely what you are saying, and largely agree with your mindset. My argument stands that these fights with echo, hp/mechanics nerfs and gear overleveling have trivialized almost every single mechanic in coil including things like DPS checks. The fact is majority of the people in protest here, have not hopped into coil recently and only understand the difficulty from memory. These fights are pathetically easy now. Sure there exist still one or two mechanics that are literal party wipes but considering all the other things have been reduced to "just heal through", I do not believe it is a valid argument to say the community will fail consistently to execute one or two mechanics in only T5, T9 and T13 especially after they are explained.

We have normal/story based content that contains add/transition phases with multiple mechanics sometimes and if you don't execute you wipe. People get through this content no issue all the time. I still invite everyone to go back into Coil now in 5.0 DF /PF and give an honest assessment on how much more tough these fights are compared to some of the current content in Roulettes across the board. They are on par NOW with some of the things that came after and their mechanics have been reused in several different content, from Alliance Raids, to dungeon bosses to story mode raid content.

People will easily be able to identify how to handle the mechanics now cause they have references. It's the same way people reuse the term "Divebombs", a T5 originating term, to describe any line sweeping AoEs and most people who did Coils immediately know what that was.

Cool lets also add Gordias savage as well since it qualifies all those conditions too, love to see how random df groups handle Nisi, Royal Pentacle, Digititus and hand of pain sync'd XD

Besides the fact this contributes nothing to the conversation, Coil doesn't actually compare in the same vein of difficulty as Gordian Savage by FAR. You can actually bullet through mechanics in Coil because the player damage is that high versus boss HP unlike Gordias. So this comment is a waste but cute.

[Crushnight]

Besides the fact this contributes nothing to the conversation, Coil doesn't actually compare in the same vein of difficulty as Gordian Savage by FAR. You can actually bullet through mechanics in Coil because the player damage is that high versus boss HP unlike Gordias. So this comment is a waste but cute.

A1S brute force
A2S brute force
A3S do mechanics
A4S ignore Nisi and brute force

This is how we handle these turns hell A1S was brute forced by most everybody for light farming back in HW.

A1S-A3S all received mechanical nerfs, hp nerf and plenty of echo.
A4S hp and echo

The only mechanic that doesn't reappear is Nisi/Royal pentacle everything else has appeared in dungeons/trials/nm raids

Exactly like coil which your advocating for, yet you know the playerbase will not be able to handle these being in a roulette yet coil which has some fights that are more demanding than A1S and A2S sync'd should be, i think that speaks volumes about how well such things will go don't you? and i also think that it now has contributed properly to the discussion with this context no?

[Havenchild]

Exactly like coil which your advocating for, yet you know the playerbase will not be able to handle these being in a roulette yet coil which has some fights that are more demanding than A1S and A2S sync'd should be, i think that speaks volumes about how well such things will go don't you? and i also think that it now has contributed properly to the discussion with this context no?

Nope not exactly. Coil is STILL less difficult than those.

I also would like to point out you squish all of Alex down to 4 fights particularly A1S through A4S but yet you avoid to mention how all the other fights will absolutely crush DF on average because almost all of them have full party wipe mechanics on every floor. Hell even in your example, the only floor without a full party wipe mechanic might be A1S and A2S.

My argument for coils exists for all fights with T5, T9, and T13 being the only fights that cannot outright be zerged though contrary to popular belief, T5 is very close to being a zerg fight, doesnt even have a party wipe mechanic, only individual one shots, T9 being the only one you currently have to watch a mechanic for (Golem phase specifically), and T13 towers, twisters tethers. Every other fight is fairly a zerg fest fight and most mechanics/combos are either failed, ignored or never seen.

My segway example is that fights like 012N and Eden Normal require roughly the same amount of coordination in comparison to any fight in Coil that actually contains some mechanic you need to "respect".

You can knock people off in E3 Leviathan, how is that so different than Twisters in T13 which if not moved away from the group, can one shot or ping pong people into walls?

If you don't seperate the adds far enough (usually pulled to the walls) in Crown of the immaculate, they buff and wipe the party with AoEs, how different is that really from Golems who you do the exact same with but have to be pulled around the arena to grab a meteor? One extra step, but the essence of the encounter is the exact same.

Coil is not as over complicated as people are making it seem.

[Fland]

Personally, I'd love to have Coils on roulette, but most players'd have expected to just be done with raid roulette in 5 mins or less like it currently is and move on to their next dailies.
You most likely can't zerg final coil and most second coil in 5 mins with current randos on DF, especially not with new level 50 players with ilevel 100.

[Nestama]

Exactly. People want quick and easy clears. If they can't have that, they would sooner abandon the duty, or vote to abandon it. If T9, T11, T12 and T13 were to show up, people will probably leave the second they see it. If wipes happen in T5, T7 and T8, people will most likely leave (especially if the wipes happen more than once).

[TheMightyMollusk]

While we're at it, can we put Urth's Fount in trial roulette?

[Krojack]

I would stop running that roulette if this happened.

Coils doesn't have a normal and savage mode. It's pretty much all hard mode and you will never get clears if you toss it into the roulette. People will wipe and vote abandon.

Coils are on par with primal ex fights with learning.

[Videra]

You think you do, but you don't. Do not put coil in normal raid roulette.

[AngeliouxRein]

you still zerg through it synced, you need to do it with minimum item level + remove all accessories.

So if we can still zerg through it sync, why isn't it in roulette again? It sounds like its easy enough to be in there.