FF 5.X Alternative Raid Buff Alignment and Openers

[Oxdarock]

To reply to your points in order:

1) I don't think anyone truly believes you talked to mentors from Balance to make this doc. If you discussed it with them you could credit them for having given you insight into all of the jobs in the game for you to then use that information to create this document.

To the next point. We aren't using buffs "early" we're using them when it's optimal and where we get the most burst out of them without holding them forever, for example, you're expecting WARs to use 8th GCD IR which is just awful, especially if they don't have NIN/MNK in their group (and if they have MNK your openers would still put Brotherhood out at the 5th GCD meaning IR now misaligns for Brotherhood which is the only buff that perfectly aligns with IR, and IR is 1110 potency more than 2 Inner Chaos uses, and that's without factoring in Onslaught and Upheaval and the autos you get under it). To your point of GNB using Gnashing earlier, that kind of doesn't matter. I don't say it as like "Tank optimization doesn't matter" I mean that the things tanks do to optimize their damage doesn't affect the raid because they aren't putting out raid buffs. So PLD dropping an Atonement after their req window to ensure they go into Maelstrom with a stronger combo doesn't affect the raid at all, it's a personal optimization to mitigate lost uptime.

2) I'm actually going to do a counter question. What actual benefit does delaying the openers give? Currently going through every opener I can for the jobs I have a role for in Balance, every job using the openers in Balance hit their most important/highest damaging skills under raid buffs. Battle Lit, used on 3rd GCD, covers all of DRG's highest potency moves while also ensuring the raid gets everything they want under those windows. A lot of what I see on your list would make jobs lose potency under your suggested buffs and I'm inclined to believe that my thought is correct considering how many people have come and explained and shown proof of how they lose potency under your suggested alignment (even more so when the people telling you that your suggested alignment is a DPS loss are people that I know are mentors on Balance).

To reply to your points in order:

1) I did talk to mentors, but several didn't want me name dropping them and being associated with this list's creation, so I kept it ambiguous and just mentioned my appreciation that they took the time to talk to me, and for the guides and simulators they made.

2) Let’s talk about your example of WAR and MNK (and NIN). For starters, I'm surprised you said that both MNK openers were bad, even though one is the exact same Anatman opener as before and the PB opener the Balance has up has BH come out 1 GCD later, so you're really admitting that even those openers have holes. Now, keep in mind that when you calculate the timestamp for weaponskills vs spells, the attack goes out quicker for the former than the latter. As a basic example using a cast/recast of 2.5 seconds, when calculating when the attacks go out for weaponskills vs spells, the former will hit at 0 and 2.5secs while the latter will hit at 2.5 and 5secs.

Now, let's look at the theoretical timestamp for WARs GCDs, and to disprove your comment about me implying that groups should always be BiS gear for the openers I’ve proposed to work (which I'll talk about later), we'll use a GCD of 2.42 secs (I'll make mention of the oGCDs, but won't give timestamps for them). The way people currently use the WAR opener, the theoretical time stamp looks like this:

Toma (0secs) -> Infuriate -> HS (2.42secs) -> Maim (4.84secs) -> SE (7.26secs) -> IC (9.68secs) -> Infuriate -> IC (12.1secs) -> IR -> FC (14.52secs) -> Upheaveal -> FC (16.94secs) -> Onslaught -> FC (19.36secs) -> FC (21.78secs) -> FC - (24.2secs) -> HS (26.62secs) -> Maim (29.04secs) -> SE (31.46secs)

So an 8sec TA is actually pretty good with this opener, since it'll catch 2 ICs and 4 FCs under IRl. However, it's not so good for MNK. Let's look at MNK's GCD rotation using an Anatman opener that doesn't clip and cost you a full GCD (keep in mind that the first ST has about a 1 sec animation lock and it takes about half a sec or so for BH to be applied). For this, I'm going to use my own GCD of 2.44 (no GL), 2.32 (GL1), and 2.2 (GL2. I’m not suggesting that other people use the same gear as I do though, as substat calculation is behind what I can accurately calculate with simple math). I’ll also be stopping at the first Boot, since the point I’m trying to make is when BH comes out (an also when GL3’s GCD is applied). So, here’s how it looks:

ST (0secs) -> Demo (1sec) -> Anatman (3.42secs) -> DK (5.74secs) -> Twin (8.06secs) -> RoF -> Demo (10.14) -> FC -> BH (This is done so that BH extends to the second Demo) -> Boot (13-ish secs give or take due to BH clip)

So BH takes between about 13 secs to come out if Anatman doesn’t cause you to lose a GCD and about 15 secs if it does, so it still works for the raid alignment I’ve presented more or less. As you can see, it’s only either hitting the FCs in IR and HS or four FCs, a HS, and a Maim.

Now let's looks at what the GCD line-up looks like for a 10th GCD IR opener:

Toma (0secs) -> Infuriate -> HS (2.42secs) -> Maim (4.84secs) -> SE (7.26secs) -> HS (9.68secs) -> Maim (12.1secs) -> SP (14.52secs) -> IC (16.94secs) -> Infuriate -> IC (19.36secs) -> IR ->FC (21.78secs) -> Upheaval -> FC - (24.2secs) -> Onslaught -> FC (26.62secs) -> FC (29.04secs) -> FC (31.46secs)

So if BH comes out at around 13secs, it’ll catch SP, both ICs, and 3 FCs in IR and if it comes out around 15secs, it’ll catch both ICs and 4 FCs. So even in the worse case scenario, BH still catches stronger GCDs in a 10th GCD IR window than an 7th (or 6th) GCD window.

Now, let’s see what the damage looks like when you account for raid buffs. We’ll compare a 7th GCD IR with TA around 8secs and BH around 13secs to a 10th GCD IR window with both TA and BH coming out around 15secs. We’ll use a crit multiplier of 50% (1.5) and use a direct crit multiplier of 75%. Keep in mind the way multipliers are calculated: SE + TA = 1.15, SE + BH = 1.16, and SE + TA + BH = 1.21.

7th GCD IR (TA: 8secs, BH: 13ish secs)
Toma (140) + HS (200) + Maim (300) + SE (380) + IC (1849.2) + IC (1949.2) + FC (1250.8) + FC (1250.8) + FC (1250.8) + FC (1250.8) + FC + (1197.7) + HS (232) -> Maim (330) + SE (418) = 11899.3 potency

10th GCD IR (TA: 15secs, BH: 15ish secs)

Toma (140) + HS (200) + Maim (300) + SE (380) + HS (220) + Maim (330) + SP (418) + FC (1950.4) + FC (1950.4) + FC (1250.8) + FC + (1250.8) + FC (1250.8) -> FC (1250.8) + FC (1250.8) + FC (1138.7 = 12030.7 potency

Now again, if using 7th (or 6th) GCD IR gains you an extra use/keeps you from losing a use of IR overall, then go with that. However, if it doesn’t, then when you compare the openers plus raid buffs, using a 10th GCD IR puts you ahead by about 131.4 based on the GCDs alone.

Since this reply is already crazy long, I’ll address the point about DRG in another reply.