FF 5.X Alternative Raid Buff Alignment and Openers

[Rasikko]

Edit: Actually everything regarding DNC by others is well explained. There is just one "rotation" (more like sequence in the case of DNC) that works and nothing else.

[Sabora_Makingai]

I like how you have a problem with the PLD openers, even though they're pretty much the exact same as what people currently use, lol.

"Pretty much the same" doesnt count though...Its not optimal and since PLD doent have any huge burst windows (but consistent damage) it relies so much more on timing its buffs with party buffs to get the most out of their abilities.

Look, I cant talk for other jobs because I dont raid with them or know them well enough to nit pick the openers, but I do know PLD. With your opener it seems like youre confusing "could" with "should". Sure your COULD do the opener you mentioned, but that doesnt mean you SHOULD. I can only tell you that if I saw a PLD using that rotation when trying to do savage, I would assume they dont know how to play the job and nope TF out of that party.

[HyoMinPark]

Edit: Actually everything regarding DNC by others is well explained. There is just one "rotation" (more like sequence in the case of DNC) that works and nothing else.

There’s technically 2—if you’ve partnered a DRG, you Devilment after your on-the-pull Standard Finish right before you begin Technical Step. But that’s the only deviation from the standard opener.

With these, Flourish is delayed so much that you risk misaligning it with your Technical Finish burst entirely. In the scenario of the second opener, one Saber Dance proc before you blow the two random Reverse Cascade and Fountainfall procs from the opening Cascade > Fountain sequence pushes Flourish’s use to roughly 15 seconds into your Technical Finish window. If an odd-number Flourish is delayed by even 1 GCD (odd-numbered Flourishes are the ones between TF windows), you’ve basically pushed its use to 17~18 seconds into your burst. A second 1 GCD delay pushes Flourish out of your burst window entirely.

OP’s lack of understanding of this proves he doesn’t understand the basics of optimizing the job, or how detrimental his desire to Cascade > Fountain before Technical can hurt the job’s alignment and burst. I just hope prospective DNCs ignore these “options”—because, at the end of the day, there are very few “options” for mathematically optimal openers. This game is extremely rigid in terms of what’s mathematically the best and what’s mathematically subpar.

[ZyrinMisharuji]

There’s technically 2—if you’ve partnered a DRG, you Devilment after your on-the-pull Standard Finish right before you begin Technical Step. But that’s the only deviation from the standard opener.

With these, Flourish is delayed so much that you risk misaligning it with your Technical Finish burst entirely. In the scenario of the second opener, one Saber Dance proc before you blow the two random Reverse Cascade and Fountainfall procs from the opening Cascade > Fountain sequence pushes Flourish’s use to roughly 15 seconds into your Technical Finish window. If an odd-number Flourish is delayed by even 1 GCD (odd-numbered Flourishes are the ones between TF windows), you’ve basically pushed its use to 17~18 seconds into your burst. A second 1 GCD delay pushes Flourish out of your burst window entirely.

OP’s lack of understanding of this proves he doesn’t understand the basics of optimizing the job, or how detrimental his desire to Cascade > Fountain before Technical can hurt the job’s alignment and burst. I just hope prospective DNCs ignore these “options”—because, at the end of the day, there are very few “options” for mathematically optimal openers. This game is extremely rigid in terms of what’s mathematically the best and what’s mathematically subpar.

Yeah, the DNC in my group stresses so much on the fact that he cannot hold buffs (or do like ranged LB on healer gaols in Titan) because it will ruin his alignment for the entire rest of the fight cause it's just that strict of a rotation. Which just kinda tells me the OP has not put any time in most of these jobs nor has he thoroughly discussed them with people who are well versed in these jobs, otherwise he'd know things like this.

[HyoMinPark]

Yeah, the DNC in my group stresses so much on the fact that he cannot hold buffs (or do like ranged LB on healer gaols in Titan) because it will ruin his alignment for the entire rest of the fight cause it's just that strict of a rotation. Which just kinda tells me the OP has not put any time in most of these jobs nor has he thoroughly discussed them with people who are well versed in these jobs, otherwise he'd know things like this.

He should be able to LB the first set of gaols without really losing much. Here’s the tip from the DNC Guide for each fight this tier:

If you are Limit Breaking the first Rock Throw / Granite Gaols (Healer Jails) make sure you use Standard Step(Assuming it is available before you start LBing) then use Limit Break. If you have been using Standard Step with no drifting, you can get both steps off then Limit Break. After the LB, depending if there has been a drift or not, use Standard Finish (don't forget the 2 steps first if needed)

My group does ranged LB3 on the second jails, but there’s talk in the Balance showing Caster LB3 is better there. I know for me, I can get all my Flourished procs off before I LB, but then SF is delayed a bit. The BLM in my static offered to LB3 the second hails and I may just let him. We don’t LB2 the first ones, even though LB2 first jails > melee LB3 boss is an option.

Tl;dr - LB shenanigans in E4S are annoying. But doable.

[Renkei]

The Arguments in this Are really stupid, there are plenty of Mods in the balance discord that spread misinformation, if anything they banned this person because they feel threatened by his ability and his passion for at least trying to make guides , if anything at least he delivers some type of content disregarding that the content might not be completely sound that shouldn't lead to a ban of any sort from any community, i personally find the balance discord community to be one of the biggest spreaders of misinformation as well there's a majority of mods in that discord, they have rules against it, but don't prevent their own staff from doing it and selectively choose to disregard any and most accusations against their moderation. the discord was made for selfish purposes not to benefit the community.

Keep making guides OP; Regardless if you get flak from the majority of the Balance community the majority of them parse far lower then their egos suggest.
you have a lot of different openers there's a couple that aren't entirely optimal; but you did include information in your guide.

If anything this community is afraid of you because you spend a good amount of time making that guide and putting your effort to it, far better then their guides located on their website.

[ZyrinMisharuji]

He should be able to LB the first set of gaols without really losing much. Here’s the tip from the DNC Guide for each fight this tier:



My group does ranged LB3 on the second jails, but there’s talk in the Balance showing Caster LB3 is better there. I know for me, I can get all my Flourished procs off before I LB, but then SF is delayed a bit. The BLM in my static offered to LB3 the second hails and I may just let him. We don’t LB2 the first ones, even though LB2 first jails > melee LB3 boss is an option.

Tl;dr - LB shenanigans in E4S are annoying. But doable.

Hmm, I didn't know that. But my group has been doing SMN LB3 on 2nd goals for awhile cause the tanks can hit the gaols a few times while the DPS remain on the boss and the LB will break the gaols.

[Shalfu]

Forum rules:

- Posting aimed to create a negative impact on the community or its members.

This wasnt a thread to discuss these openers but to spread missinformation to feed the OP Tornado Kick nostalgia, which is against the forum rules.
Thanks to the people that corrected these bad openers.

[Renkei]

Forum rules:

- Posting aimed to create a negative impact on the community or its members.

This wasnt a thread to discuss these openers but to spread missinformation to feed the OP Tornado Kick nostalgia, which is against the forum rules.
Thanks to the people that corrected these bad openers.

Okay? That's not your scope bro to even say that or even come to that conclusion, The Community Members of that Discord are coming in here and attacking someone who has nothing to do with it. This isn't a post aimed to creatrive negative impact on the community or its members you guys are posting only targeting the op showing how crappy of a community you guys really are.

[Shalfu]

Okay? That's not your scope bro to even say that or even come to that conclusion, The Community Members of that Discord are coming in here and attacking someone who has nothing to do with it. This isn't a post aimed to creatrive negative impact on the community or its members you guys are posting only targeting the op showing how crappy of a community you guys really are.

OP admitted that everything OP created was to cater that TK opener, which wasn't even a gain in the first place not even under all raid buffs. This has been proven to OP multiple times with different people on private messages and other channels. With math backing up the pointers. So continuing to spread things OP, for sure at this point, knows that its incorrect, its only harmful for the community and would only cause a negative impact to its members.

OP claims to have used the tools provided by experts in each job, everyone of these experts have proved OP wrong. I don't know whats the deal with naming them in the OP post when they are telling OP that OP is wrong.

I won't be the one to tell you how to play the game. But I won't let OP misslead the community either.