crafting is gone

[Callinon]

They just can't go overboard like Blizzard did with WoW. In its current state, WoW is basically a mobile app with some hardcore raiding attached. FF XIV isn't anywhere near that, nor will they be after these crafting changes, but it is a valid concern even if I don't necessarily agree with their (who you responded to) other points.

WoW is also the most successful MMORPG of all time.

I'm not saying everything they've done has been good. There's a reason I don't play it anymore. But their design goal from the outset was to make a casual-friendly MMORPG and damn if that hasn't worked brilliantly for them.

[Vahlnir]

WoW is also the most successful MMORPG of all time.

I'm not saying everything they've done has been good. There's a reason I don't play it anymore. But their design goal from the outset was to make a casual-friendly MMORPG and damn if that hasn't worked brilliantly for them.

Oh yeah, it definitely worked for them for awhile. There's no mistaking that.

[Maeka]

WoW is also the most successful MMORPG of all time.

You mean, was.

The subscription numbers have tanked, and the only reason it is doing okay today is because of a bunch of people with rose-colored goggles all ooo and ahhh over Classic, but that will eventually wear off when the content stagnates and the playerbase gets split over whether or not to go to TBC classic or just stay at Vanilla classic. But it will eventually stagnate. That part is inevitable.

Without Classic WoW, their numbers were lower than XIV's. WoW's been on the decline since 8.0 while XIV has only been rising and rising and rising.

BfA was met with sharp criticism over... well.... the majority of the game systems, while ShB was received with astounding praises, other than perhaps Healers.

[Callinon]

You mean, was.

The subscription numbers have tanked, and the only reason it is doing okay today is because of a bunch of people with rose-colored goggles all ooo and ahhh over Classic, but that will eventually wear off when the content stagnates and the playerbase gets split over whether or not to go to TBC classic or just stay at Vanilla classic. But it will eventually stagnate. That part is inevitable.

Without Classic WoW, their numbers were lower than XIV's. WoW's been on the decline since 8.0 while XIV has only been rising and rising and rising.

BfA was met with sharp criticism over... well.... the majority of the game systems, while ShB was received with astounding praises, other than perhaps Healers.

Even if FFXIV has more subscribers right now than WoW 8.0 has, it doesn't take away the success of the prior 15 years. WoW is the most successful MMORPG of all time.

[Maeka]

Even if FFXIV has more subscribers right now than WoW 8.0 has, it doesn't take away the success of the prior 15 years. WoW is the most successful MMORPG of all time.

FFXIV hasn't even been around for 15 years yet.

We're only about 5 years in (not counting 1.0....)

Where was WoW 5 years into its lifespan? That would be Mid-Wrath, at where WoW peaked and then started falling right afterwards during early Cataclysm.

If FFXIV goes through this year without having a similar fall, then I think we could say that FFXIV is on the track of being more successful than WoW was.

EDIT: Yeesh, it took WoW 5 years to get from Vanilla to Mid-Wrath... but it only took 4 years to get from beginning of Draenor, through Legion, to beginning of BfA, lol.

EDIT2: I also wanna point out that Cataclysm is a perfect example of what one should NOT do with a highly successful MMO. Anybody remember the ludicrously hard content because all the hardcores were whining during Wrath? Look at what happened to the subscription numbers when your average player could *not* handle the Heroics in Cataclysm, lol. They tanked heavily. I remember even outdoor content being way too difficult, esp Tol Barad...

[Vahlnir]

FFXIV hasn't even been around for 15 years yet.

We're only about 5 years in.

Where was WoW 5 years into its lifespan? That would be Mid-Wrath, at where WoW peaked and then started falling right afterwards during early Cataclysm.

If FFXIV goes through this year without having a similar fall, then I think we could say that FFXIV is on the track of being more successful than WoW was.

But it is still the most successful MMO of all time. It already took that crown. They've all but thrown that crown into the trash in recent years but the fact remains that they got it. I want FF XIV to do well, and it is. But I don't think we're ever going to see 12 million + subscription numbers at once. Every MMO that has come before and after WoW has never been able to achieve that. They nearly broke their own record with WoD with an alleged 10 million players at launch, but within 6 months literally half of the player base up and left because of how bad it was. So they set another personal record, and not a good one. A record that led them to stop reporting sub numbers which were supposedly around the 3 million mark when they stopped counting.

[Maeka]

But it is still the most successful MMO of all time. It already took that crown. They've all but thrown that crown into the trash in recent years but the fact remains that they got it. I want FF XIV to do well, and it is. But I don't think we're ever going to see 12 million + subscription numbers at once. Every MMO that has come before and after WoW has never been able to achieve that. They nearly broke their own record with WoD with an alleged 10 million players at launch, but within 6 months literally half of the player base up and left because of how bad it was. So they set another personal record, and not a good one. A record that led them to stop reporting sub numbers which were supposedly around the 3 million mark when they stopped counting.

I guess if you count pure subscription numbers as "success", maybe.

I have... more criteria than just that, personally. You can get people to come, but do they stay? Subscription based services are only good if people stick around. Otherwise you get 1 month of sub and then the customer leaves and you get nothing afterward. I'd think a game that has 100k subs who stick around for 5 years is more successful than the game that has 200k subs, where 150k of them only stick around for 3 months.

[CookiesNCreams]

I guess if you count pure subscription numbers as "success", maybe.

I have... more criteria than just that, personally. You can get people to come, but do they stay? Subscription based services are only good if people stick around. Otherwise you get 1 month of sub and then the customer leaves and you get nothing afterward. I'd think a game that has 100k subs who stick around for 5 years is more successful than the game that has 200k subs, where 150k of them only stick around for 3 months.

Amen to that, lol.

Casuals and hardcores deserve content and care. Do that, your game will be big. And FFXIV is on a wonderful, more successful path than WoW did at the 5 year mark, starting with 5.1. Imagine where FFXIV will be in another 6-7 years.

Anywho, my point is... crafting should have casual and hardcore content. I think anything that's not Star recipes should be made a bit more accessible and easier, but Star recipes should be difficult. 1-Star is like Extreme Primals, 3-Star is like Savage Raid, and 4-Star is Ultimate, IMO.

As much as I campaign for easier crafting, I am perfectly fine with not being able to do Star recipes. I don't, however, like seeing normal recipes being so bloody difficult to do while leveling. I just don't think that should be a thing.

Perfectly said. Couldn’t agree more. For some reason though, most of FFXIV’s community is a tad bit selfish, and believe hardcore players do not deserve content or attention even in the 1% - 5% slightest. It’s all about them. Then forgetting these people also pay for the game, not just them.

Luckily Yoshida is a cool guy, and he’s not one for discriminating against others. I assume this crafting change didn’t happen during 4.x because they were so focused on Hrothgar and Viera, etc.