Not Happy With The New Changes

[Eloah]

I don't craft competitively, but I do try to maintain myself to assist friends and FC mates. But even I can see that crafting was getting a bit stale. The rotation I use hasn't changed since HW, I don't use macros, and I didn't do any quests in SB, so I have none of those rewards; which I know one reward is a trait being removed. Crafting did need a bit of an overhaul, is this the right way of doing it, who knows, but at least SE noticed and is trying. Besides, from what I understand, this'll still be the most detailed crafting system in an MMO so far.

[Callinon]

If you’re wanting something...and that something is gated by, I dunno, luck? That means it’s difficult because you have something in your way. Easiest way I can explain it to you.

So never mind the definition you've been bandying about, "difficult" just means whatever you want it to mean to prop up your position? Got it.

[CookiesNCreams]

So never mind the definition you've been bandying about, "difficult" just means whatever you want it to mean to prop up your position? Got it.

Um, no. Please read the definition of difficult again.

Let’s just agree to disagree, these conversations are pointless when it comes to someone trying to argue that RNG isn’t technically difficult. I debated with someone over this for like, an hour before, and it didn’t go anywhere. I’m just happy it’s added to endgame crafting again, and even more happy that lazy and/ or underachieving players cannot just arbitrarily sit down and mass produce endgame recipes like it’s a piece of cake.

[Hanmerreborn]

Um, no. Please read the definition of difficult again.

Let’s just agree to disagree, these conversations are pointless when it comes to someone trying to argue that RNG isn’t technically difficult. I debated with someone over this for like, an hour before, and it didn’t go anywhere. I’m just happy it’s added to endgame crafting again, and even more happy that lazy and/ or underachieving players cannot just arbitrarily sit down and mass produce endgame recipes like it’s a piece of cake.

You keep saying "difficult" when you mean tedious.

If Macro A can 100% a craft one attempt, and get 80% the next solely by reliance on good procs at exactly the right time , that's not difficult, that's tedious. It just means you have to do gather slightly more materials.

Difficult would require a large HQ material investment to begin or an exceedingly long whistle combo, not "did I get the three good procs during this two button macro" or not.

[CookiesNCreams]

You keep saying "difficult" when you mean tedious.

If Macro A can 100% a craft one attempt, and get 80% the next solely by reliance on good procs at exactly the right time , that's not difficult, that's tedious. It just means you have to do gather slightly more materials.

Difficult would require a large HQ material investment to begin or an exceedingly long whistle combo, not "did I get the three good procs during this two button macro" or not.

How is RNG tedious? Because you or I get angry that our crafts fail? RNG is annoyingly difficult, because nothing you do is guaranteed. As I said, this conversation is pointless, these never go anywhere. I just want hardcore or vet crafters getting what they want, and casual players getting what they want as well. And if this is how Yoshida wants to do it, I personally hope it forever stays this way. I’m not opposed to a skill based system though.

Also, it depends how difficult it is to obtain HQ mats. I assume based on what Yoshida said, procs will apply to all endgame recipes, including mats needed to make endgame gear. If obtaining HQ mats is child’s play, nothing will really change. (Luckily he stated he notices his broken it is currently, and 5.1 will basically nerf that).

TLDR: RNG is difficult in its own way, you can not convince me otherwise no matter what. And I can’t convince you either. I’m glad it’s this way

[Callinon]

Um, no. Please read the definition of difficult again.

Is italics "difficult" different than normal "difficult?" Because it doesn't seem like "random event you have no control over" really plays a role in difficulty as you've defined it... well at least as you defined it the first time. Your goalposts should settle down somewhere eventually.

Let me put it this way: if a raid boss randomly just wiped your party in say 12% of encounters and there was nothing you could do to prevent that... that's not difficulty... that's just bullshit.

Now hey, if you want endgame crafting to include random bullshit that screws you for no reason, that's fine... whatever turns you on. But let's not you and I mistake that for difficulty or effort. It's just bullshit.

[Maeka]

A lot of what they removed is just useless fluff and or buttons that can be combined, and a lot of it is to smooth out early level crafting.

I really don't understand why the OP is complaining. Do you REALLY need 40+ buttons to feel that DoH classes are interesting when each button has 2-3 other buttons that do almost the exact same thing? Is that really necessary?

Do you really think that it should be necessary to level ALL the DoH classes just to get the sprinkling of cross-role actions to make crafting somewhat bearable, like the *REQUIREMENT* to have Weaver to get Careful Synthesis up until you finally get the III version in the 60s? I know I remembered hating having to stop and level CUL to get Hasty Touch, that was annoying as frick. I didn't have any interest in CUL whatsoever at the time. yadda yadda.

Most of this stuff was "Let's make lower level stuff not so annoying, and let's remove a lot of the duplicate actions".

I doubt the final endgame impact is going to be that high. As was already said, this isn't going to change anything because people already used macros. This is just reducing a lot of useless clutter.

I know, you look at that and you go *GASP!* 40 actions REMOVED!?" ... but.... most of them were just duplicates of other buttons.

EDIT: The one thing Yoshi-P didn't do, I wished he would have: Make it so that any craft can repair any gear. No, I don't want to have to level ALL the crafts except CUL just to make my own repairs.

[Millen1]

I would say this. Crafting was best in ARR. Book 1 was easy, book 2 on my server was rough. There were only 4 players that posted crafts for close to a month. We all made real gil for our work but that book was very rng based. In HW 3.0 to the end of 3.1 crafting was horrid. Nothing to craft and the favors were trash, what did Yoshi say? He listened to the community. Raid in HW was too hard, crafting was gated and boring not to mention all the free loot given away and gathering became harder. What happened? Players left the game in large numbers. So be careful in saying Yoshi listens to the community. You might rage quit. Having said that crafting was better in SB, though it got to be facroll easy. There was nothing hard to get the books that could take days or weeks to do in ARR. Crafting again is easy in ShB. First, the books should be like the old ARR book two that was difficult and the crafting was hard. This proc based thing sounds like a bad idea in the pre notes. Maybe it works, maybe it sucks. We will find out soon. I do remember making i110 battle gear in ARR, it was rare on my server and it was fun to see my name on the gear others wore.

[CookiesNCreams]

I would say this. Crafting was best in ARR. Book 1 was easy, book 2 on my server was rough. There were only 4 players that posted crafts for close to a month. We all made real gil for our work but that book was very rng based. In HW 3.0 to the end of 3.1 crafting was horrid. Nothing to craft and the favors were trash, what did Yoshi say? He listened to the community. Raid in HW was too hard, crafting was gated and boring not to mention all the free loot given away and gathering became harder. What happened? Players left the game in large numbers. So be careful in saying Yoshi listens to the community. You might rage quit. Having said that crafting was better in SB, though it got to be facroll easy. There was nothing hard to get the books that could take days or weeks to do in ARR. Crafting again is easy in ShB. First, the books should be like the old ARR book two that was difficult and the crafting was hard. This proc based thing sounds like a bad idea in the pre notes. Maybe it works, maybe it sucks. We will find out soon. I do remember making i110 battle gear in ARR, it was rare on my server and it was fun to see my name on the gear others wore.

I...couldn’t have said it any better myself, wow lol.

[KageTokage]

I was never around to do the high end crafting in ARR, but the amount of effort involved just in getting the ability to do high end crafts seemed like it offered a sense of progression that is currently lacking from the system.

If people want to be able to easily max crafters for the sake of repairing gear/melding materia, that's fine, but I do feel like there should be more of an entry barrier to the endgame crafts and not necessarily through ridiculous stat requirements.