Not Happy With The New Changes

[Liam_Harper]

The only ability affected by the Steady Hand removal is Hasty Touch, Patient Touch and Rapid Synth, none of which were used much.

Macro crafting seems fine so far, sure it's less easy to Reuse macro 1-100% in rubbish gear but I'm still getting near 1-100% with an unrefined macro for Glass Fibre in Dwarven Cotton gear.

If anyone wants to tweak or mess about with it go ahead. Using NQ Blood Bouilla, Specialist, 541 base CP. Can't guarantee it'll work under 2300 craft tho. I'll look into gear soon.

/ac "Reflect" <wait.3>
/ac "Manipulation" <wait.2>
/ac "Ingenuity" <wait.2>
/ac "Innovation" <wait.2>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Ingenuity" <wait.2>
/ac "Innovation" <wait.2>
/ac "Observe" <wait.3>
/ac "Focused Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Observe" <wait.3>
/ac "Focused Touch" <wait.3>
/echo Macro #1 complete <se.1>

/ac "Manipulation" <wait.2>
/ac "Ingenuity" <wait.2>
/ac "Innovation" <wait.2>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Great Strides" <wait.2>
/ac "Byregot's Blessing" <wait.3>
/ac "Careful Synthesis" <wait.3>
/echo Macro #2 complete <se.14>

Seems Strides-Brygots is around 14k with Ingen and Inno, which actually isn't as much of a nerf as I'd feared.

EDIT:

Wow.

The gear is an absolute joke to HQ. This is my experimental unrefined macro that went 1-100% but I'm sure better ones will be theorycrafted soon.

/ac "Reflect" <wait.3>
/ac "Manipulation" <wait.2>
/ac "Ingenuity" <wait.2>
/ac "Innovation" <wait.2>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Ingenuity" <wait.2>
/ac "Innovation" <wait.2>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Great Strides" <wait.2>
/ac "Preparatory Touch" <wait.3>
/echo Macro #1 complete <se.1>

/ac "Ingenuity" <wait.2>
/ac "Innovation" <wait.2>
/ac "Prudent Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Great Strides" <wait.2>
/ac "Byregot's Blessing" <wait.3>
/ac "Careful Synthesis" <wait.3>
/echo Macro #2 complete <se.14>

[EphPhoen]

I'm with Lemuel81. And Liam_Harper, I use Hasty Touch and Patient Touch quite a bit, so the loss of Steady Hand affects how I approach crafting by quite a bit. I feel like Crafting got screwed while Gathering got nothing but upsides. I didn't use guides to come up with my crafting style, I earned it, and they just took it away. And if they're so underutilized, as you say, then why weren't they cut with the others? And a 60% and 50%, respectively, chance is definitely not worth the investiture.

And as far as the RNG argument is concerned: If you have to rely on luck, it's not a skill. Being skillful is being able to do something to a reasonable level consistently. If every time you do something it is dependent on a coin flip that you can do it, that's not skill, that's gambling or being favored by a deity. The entire premise of Pathfinder/D&D is based on this. At the low levels, making anything decent with your skills is a crapshoot, but when you get to the higher levels, your making things becomes less of a roll of the die, and more the effort (i.e. skill points) you put into the thing. You can still occasionally fail if you roll really horribly, but on average, you can produce consistently.

[Callinon]

I'm with Lemuel81. And Liam_Harper, I use Hasty Touch and Patient Touch quite a bit, so the loss of Steady Hand affects how I approach crafting by quite a bit. I feel like Crafting got screwed while Gathering got nothing but upsides. I didn't use guides to come up with my crafting style, I earned it, and they just took it away. And if they're so underutilized, as you say, then why weren't they cut with the others? And a 60% and 50%, respectively, chance is definitely not worth the investiture

Forgive me but that sounds a lot like "I invented this freeze mage rotation and no one's going to tell me it's bad!"

You should ask yourself WHY you're leaning so hard on skills with high failure rates when skills that don't have that problem are readily available.

Hasty Touch and Rapid Synth have their uses at very low levels (mostly Hasty, probably less so now though), but they obsolete relatively quickly. By the time you're level 40 or so, you shouldn't even be considering them. Certainly by 80 they should have a thick layer of dust on your hotbars if they're even still there.

[EphPhoen]

Forgive me but that sounds a lot like "I invented this freeze mage rotation and no one's going to tell me it's bad!"

You should ask yourself WHY you're leaning so hard on skills with high failure rates when skills that don't have that problem are readily available.

Hasty Touch and Rapid Synth have their uses at very low levels (mostly Hasty, probably less so now though), but they obsolete relatively quickly. By the time you're level 40 or so, you shouldn't even be considering them. Certainly by 80 they should have a thick layer of dust on your hotbars if they're even still there.

And forgive me, but that sounds awfully elitist of you. "Oh, hey! *I* stopped using that at high level so you should, too." Didn't say my way was the only way, but that was the fun of the system: there wasn't one way to the solution. I chose MY particular way for CP conservation, as well as more chances in the event of failure. And it could reliably get me to hq in the event of good or excellent conditions not popping up--which, as it has been for me, they show up less on high level crafts (might be different for you; if so, kudos). It went:

Inner Quiet
Waste Not II
Steady Hand II
Patient Touch
Patient Touch
Hasty Touch II ~ till end of SHII or Standard Touch if, by that point, I was close to having the bar maxed out.

If the quality was really high--or the RNG really hated me that round--then I had a Master's Mend/Manipulation and could use that to finish up. Then it would be SHII, HTII till I was finished or on the last two of SHII to which I would use Byregot's Blessing to make up for the quality I didn't get--usually coupling with Great Strides. Once quality is done, finish up with Careful Synthesis III.

[Niadissa]

And forgive me, but that sounds awfully elitist of you. "Oh, hey! *I* stopped using that at high level so you should, too." Didn't say my way was the only way, but that was the fun of the system: there wasn't one way to the solution. I chose MY particular way for CP conservation, as well as more chances in the event of failure. And it could reliably get me to hq in the event of good or excellent conditions not popping up--which, as it has been for me, they show up less on high level crafts (might be different for you; if so, kudos). It went:

Inner Quiet
Waste Not II
Steady Hand II
Patient Touch
Patient Touch
Hasty Touch II ~ till end of SHII or Standard Touch if, by that point, I was close to having the bar maxed out.

If the quality was really high--or the RNG really hated me that round--then I had a Master's Mend/Manipulation and could use that to finish up. Then it would be SHII, HTII till I was finished or on the last two of SHII to which I would use Byregot's Blessing to make up for the quality I didn't get--usually coupling with Great Strides. Once quality is done, finish up with Careful Synthesis III.

So, let me get this straight. You are complaining that your way is heavy with RNG. Someone posted a macro that does not use said RNG abilities, and you are still complaining.

You are refusing help, and saying it is to hard, and then when someone called you on it, you decided that the appropriate response was to call them an elitist.

As they said before, you are just like the so called "ice" mage refusing to use anything but ice spells.

At this point, being given the information, if you continue to use hasty touch and/or rapid synthesis because "that's how i've always done it" you have no one but yourself to blame for the issues you are having.

[EphPhoen]

So, let me get this straight. You are complaining that your way is heavy with RNG. Someone posted a macro that does not use said RNG abilities, and you are still complaining.

You are refusing help, and saying it is to hard, and then when someone called you on it, you decided that the appropriate response was to call them an elitist.

As they said before, you are just like the so called "ice" mage refusing to use anything but ice spells.

At this point, being given the information, if you continue to use hasty touch and/or rapid synthesis because "that's how i've always done it" you have no one but yourself to blame for the issues you are having.

-looks up at high horse- -sips chai- First off, homey, reading comprehension would help you out immensely. I never said "too hard," I said I agreed with one of the posters I didn't like the direction it was going--specifically in reference to the loss of Steady Hand. I didn't ask for help or to be given a way nor refuse any offered. Go back up and READ and show me where I said that specifically. I'll wait. =P

Secondly, you obviously don't know your skills. While, yes, if you were to use Hasty Touch or Patient Touch without anything, you have a 50-60% chance of success, Steady Hand II bumps that up by 30%. What's that? 80-90%! Oh my, that means only a 10-20% chance of failure! Not so heavy with RNG, now, is it? =P

Thirdly, I never said of any actions I was or wasn't taking, so take putting words in my mouth and shove it, most sincerely. ^_^ Obviously, I'm going to have to figure out something else. If you gonna come at someone rude, at least come correct. kthx bye. =P

[Lemuel81]

You should spend a little more time then. Because virtually all the abilities that had failure rates lost them in this patch. This was to compensate for the removal of Steady Hand, an entirely pointless ability that everyone was forced to use all the time.. so it needed to go.

That is not what I saw logged in. Abilities still had failure rates and nothing to compensate for them.

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

That is not what I saw logged in. Abilities still had failure rates and nothing to compensate for them.

The only abilities that still have failure rates are Hasty Touch and Rapid Synthesis as far as I can see. Focus Synthesis and Focused Touch still have their 50% success rate without Observe but 100% with it. What other skills are you seeing that have fail rates?

[Lemuel81]

snip

Mhmm, someone mentioned that it was nothing to craft trivial recipes. Like I said, I will need to see how it plays out, but they still watered it down. There was no reason to dumb it down that much, should be interesting to see how the harder recipes will be like.

Thx for sharing your info