Anyone else concerned by the extremely low skill ceiling?

[Schan]

Titan Savage is not what i would call a low skill ceiling.
Latest alliance raid is also pretty hard and people are trying to avoid it.

that's Savage though.
I feel like ever since Gordias they have been afraid of making things remotely hard.

I'm fine with people wiping 21684563465841 times and still be able to clear in dungeons and even 24 man raids simply because there's so many people in them that it would be highly unfair if 1 person's mistake lead to the death of the other 23

i'm not really okay with EX only having 1 maybe 2 mechanics that you need to pay attention to (hello Titania). IMO Innocence EX was better designed difficulty wise. With him you couldn't just turn your brain off until THAT mechanic.

And I am definetely not okay with that happening in Savage. That's basically what Levi Savage is. There are only 2 mechanics that require you to be on point in there. It was the same with Omega. I'm fine with the tuning down the first raid tier but what I have been witnessing is them never going back to Midas/Alexander level of difficulty. Now this could also be because I'm more experienced with the game so when they present rehash of other mechanics I instinctively know how to react making things "easier" for me.

However, back then they said they set the difficulty the other way around and I agree. First raid to be easier so you get used to the new skills and what not and then bumping up the difficulty. However I did not notice them bumping up the difficulty. If anything it was more of the same with a difficulty spike here and there during Omega.

Edit: and Titan Savage is more about you mastering your timing / movement than anything else. He likes to throw you some curve balls and I have a love-hate relationship with him.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Midas took 2 weeks and UCoB 13 days. Even if it’s not a month, that’s better than 18 hours (all of 4.0’s raids) and 14 hours (Eden). I’d say Gordias is a very poor example given how it was poorly tested and blatantly overtuned—as admitted by the developers—and its my understanding that T5 was bugged to all heck when it dropped. Not belittling any accomplishments here, but is it fair to compare tiers like Midas to two that had other confounding factors to them?

I also don’t hear people questioning the accomplishments of soloing PotD—especially considering there’s currently a thread complaining about an individual selling Floor 200 runs—so I don’t know what point you’re actually trying to make there. Savage, as it stands now, is a shadow of what it used to be. There’s no denying that. I’d personally prefer it if the tiers lasted longer than half a day.

The reset of cool downs definitely had a large impact on this.

You may look at it and see a lot of cool downs with lowish recast times, but I remember having to wait upwards of 5 minutes in coil on bahamut cuz of a wipe just after hallowed use. I had a very strict CD rotation back then, and it forced us to wait the duration until it would be up when I needed it.

During prog, this can happen a lot. When the need to wait goes away, you progress wayyy faster.

You can get way more pulls when you aren't waiting for cool downs, especially when said cool down has a longer recast than 3 pulls when you are learning a fight (can you imagine waiting for cds after wiping in e4s early? The hardest parts of that fight happen less than 3 mins in from what I've seen so far.)

[Nemmar]

I dunno, but i think that's a good thing.

Means less fail groups.

But to say jobs are simplistic i dunno. Have you tried playing WoW's 3-4 button classes? Thing is the other mmo's simply add more ways in wich you can screw up your gear and class talents. FF is more streamlined in that front, but not so much in the execution (positionals are something you don't see on other mmo's and FF requires you to dance around the bosses to maximise your dps).
So, yeah... i think it's actually a good thing if the worse players are not that far off.

[SaberMaxwell]

So, it means that this time, for the world first ultimate, people are not gonna use things like packets inspection, data mining, automatic call outs of mechanics to come, unauthorized add-ons, etc, to make things way easier than it would normally be ? XD

Irony aside when even the most so-called hardcore players are using all they can to dumb things down, i dont see what's weird when SE end up giving them what they want.

Woohoo yeah screw those raiders! They're all in exactly that subset of players you just outlined and all of them have exactly that cognitive dissonance!

No, not every hardcore raider uses cactbot or triggernonetry or whatever else is out there. My group which week 1 killed Eden Savage certainly didn't use any of those tools, and of the two Ultimate fights I've done only one do I have triggers for, and that's Nael's RP mechanics which the devs themselves admitted weren't the best thought through in their implementation.

[DinahDemiurge]

It's okay if you guys want to talk about the fights themselves, but I made this thread more to talk about the design and skill of play of the actual jobs being in-conducive to the desire for mastery in order to achieve and accomplish goals.

[ElazulHP]

Nope. Doesn't bother me at all. Though I'm more of a casual now so *shrug*. I play when there is content for me, and take extended breaks playing other games when there is not. I mainly play for the story but also enjoy the dungeons, 24 mans, normal mode for the raids, beast tribes, crafting, EX Primals, ect. I don't usually go for the Savage and Ultimate stuff though once in a blue moon i'll take a crack at it. I'm here to enjoy myself, not stress myself out so everything works fine as far as i'm concerned. I think if the game became more hardcore focused I would probably just unsubscribe. The "end game" hamster wheel isn't really my thing.

[CookiesNCreams]

The few elitists will always think their opinion matters more than the majority of casuals. So few actually have savage and ultimate clears only proves the point. The thing that baffles me is PvP not many enjoy it but SE keeps forcing people into it by adding rewards to it constantly.

That’s quite a pretentious mindset you got there. You mean to tell me that hardcore player’s opinions are instantly invalid just because you don’t like them? Even though they also pay for the game? Both casual and hardcore players should receive benefits, not one over the other. Please take your obvious disdain towards hardcore players out of this, and be objective.

[Nedkel]

that's Savage though.
I feel like ever since Gordias they have been afraid of making things remotely hard.

I'm fine with people wiping 21684563465841 times and still be able to clear in dungeons and even 24 man raids simply because there's so many people in them that it would be highly unfair if 1 person's mistake lead to the death of the other 23

i'm not really okay with EX only having 1 maybe 2 mechanics that you need to pay attention to (hello Titania). IMO Innocence EX was better designed difficulty wise. With him you couldn't just turn your brain off until THAT mechanic.

And I am definetely not okay with that happening in Savage. That's basically what Levi Savage is. There are only 2 mechanics that require you to be on point in there. It was the same with Omega. I'm fine with the tuning down the first raid tier but what I have been witnessing is them never going back to Midas/Alexander level of difficulty. Now this could also be because I'm more experienced with the game so when they present rehash of other mechanics I instinctively know how to react making things "easier" for me.

However, back then they said they set the difficulty the other way around and I agree. First raid to be easier so you get used to the new skills and what not and then bumping up the difficulty. However I did not notice them bumping up the difficulty. If anything it was more of the same with a difficulty spike here and there during Omega.

Edit: and Titan Savage is more about you mastering your timing / movement than anything else. He likes to throw you some curve balls and I have a love-hate relationship with him.

Wait then for liquid man from alexander, this guy will deliver you a proper pain. xD
Just one thing, do him without watching youtube guide.

[SerLuke]

From what it seems like people are saying either “screw the raiders they are just elitists!” Or “screw the casuals they are just bad” are there any kinds of changes that can be made to the game to satisfy both parties?

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

From what it seems like people are saying either “screw the raiders they are just elitists!” Or “screw the casuals they are just bad” are there any kinds of changes that can be made to the game to satisfy both parties?

There is Never a Middle Ground Friend
Either you are Left, or you are Right.