How do we feel about tank damage right now?

[Nedkel]

Yeah of course, that's why the vast majority of tanks' toolkits are pure damaging moves with no other purposes.

And we still do less dmg than healers who has 2-3 damage buttons... xD
A healer who is focusing in 95% of time on DPS is able to surpass a perfectly played tank dps, who needs to double weave and follow specific rotations, keeping in check server ticks and etc stuff.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

And we still do less dmg than healers who has 2-3 damage buttons... xD
A healer who is focusing in 95% of time on DPS is able to surpass a perfectly played tank dps, who needs to double weave and follow specific rotations, keeping in check server ticks and etc stuff.

And this is why OP asked if tanks should gain an extra 1k DPS to increase the ratio of damage dealt by the tank role compared to DPS, so healers aren't breathing down the tanks necks.

[Satarn]

If "tank numbers slide down again" then those people weren't tanks, they were dps who wanted faster queue times. You play a tank to tank, not because you want big dps.

I couldn't care less about WHMs competing with tanks in terms of DPS numbers, so long as tanks are balanced with each other, which right now they are. I do however care about how engaging playing a tank is and frankly, it's been utterly boring in SHB so far. I mean that both in terms of DPS rotation as well as mitigation and other tank duties.

CDs have been homogenized, literally all TBs this tier have been doubles, which got hella stale(and ironically made those OT cds they gave to everyone less useful) and removal of fluff CDs in favor of baking stance mitigation into a freebie trait, as well as removing bosses' ability to crit, has made mitigation outside of those boring TBs near inconsequential. There's no interesting tank-centered mechanic in the entirety of Eden and positioning only comes up during first phase of Titan(can't really count "dragging Voidwalker back to mid" as positioning) and even there, barely. Aggro has been practically removed as a concern - not that it's been that big before, but it at least came up occasionally and could've been expanded upon easily, rather than downright cut from the game. There's not even any adds to pick up while a boss is still around.

This is the first tier when I'm seriously considering switching to dps, because I feel like SHB actually made the "blue dps" meme a reality, with tank aspect being almost not there, while tank rotations have been further simplified at the same time. SHB tank is basically a "go to" role for people who just want to play a melee, but don't want to be judged when their dps isn't great.

Tanking should be about actively putting effort into surviving, keeping threat and protecting your allies, bonus points if you can also put some extra skill into bringing in as much hurt as possible. SHB tanking is about being an unkillable sack of hp and occasionally pressing a cd when you see a big, bad cast time.

[Quor]

Yet this thread exists not because players understand that concept, but because they feel like they don't do enough. They don't seek to expand anything. The just want to add 1 to their leading digit.

Exactly this. The past 20 pages of this thread, no one has offered any suggestion to increase tank "complexity" or "engagement." It's just been whining for more damage and "heals shouldn't out dps tanks" and a bunch of defeatist resignation about fight design.

Time to put up or shut up. Start offering suggestions that are meaningful. Open yourself up to criticism. Try to fix the actual problem instead of throwing a band-aid arbitrary amount of dps at tanks and calling it a day. If you can't do that, then shut up and accept that you're simply whining because you want a bigger bar on the graph.

[Nedkel]

You cant just say a tank is for tanking so he should be doing less damage than everyone else.

There is a healer that could entirely focus on dpsing and still do more dps than a tank with ten times harder to execute rotation.
Is is ridiculous.

[Satarn]

You cant just say a tank is for tanking so he should be doing less damage than everyone else.

There is a healer that could entirely focus on dpsing and still do more dps than a tank with ten times harder to execute rotation.
Is is ridiculous.

Don't worry, with where we're heading now, 6.0 tanks will all entirely consist of IR/Req/Delirium windows and then it'll be just as complex as the healers.

[Quor]

Exactly this. The past 20 pages of this thread, no one has offered any suggestion to increase tank "complexity" or "engagement." It's just been whining for more damage and "heals shouldn't out dps tanks" and a bunch of defeatist resignation about fight design.

Time to put up or shut up. Start offering suggestions that are meaningful. Open yourself up to criticism. Try to fix the actual problem instead of throwing a band-aid arbitrary amount of dps at tanks and calling it a day. If you can't do that, then shut up and accept that you're simply whining because you want a bigger bar on the graph.

Now, in the interest of not pulling a "do as I say, not as I do" I'll get the ball rolling.

WAR - Bring back BB combo (yes, it can be done, it was done with Energy Drain and Hagakure just recently). Butcher's Block now applies a DoT called "Fractured" to the target when used that lasts for 30s. While active, the DoT increases all damage done to the target by 2%, and when the DoT expires naturally the WAR also gains 20 beast gauge. This gives WAR incentive to use BB combo as a 2% raid increase and the DoT itself will both be significant, but you don't want to overlap the DoT nor do you want it to fall off for more than a second or two, so proper BB timing will be key. Storm's Eye duration baseline boosted to 40s to help compensate for this new addition. This will slow down WAR's opener a bit, but overall be a solid increase in damage, both in a raid sense and a personal sense.

DRK - Bring back Power Slash combo. It grants a 6% haste buff to DRK for 30s while Darkside now only grants 5% damage (net increase of ~1% overall damage for the DRK). If used under the effect of Dark Arts, Power Slash now also applies a debuff called "Shredded Soul" that increases damage done to the target by 2% for 60s. Shredded Soul also causes all damage done to the target via weaponskills/spells to replenish 8 MP to the DRK who applied the debuff and 2% of the damage dealt as life to the person who did the weaponskill/spell. Assuming a 2.0 GCD, this would be 240 MP over the course of the debuff, or approximately 20 potency. At 2.4 GCD you're looking at 200 MP over 60s, or approximately 32 potency. This means over the course of the 60s, assuming 2 tanks and 4 dps attacking a boss non-stop and 2 healers occasionally attacking between heals, you'll see maybe 600-800 MP gained, or about 250-280 potency extra. 2% extra healing may not sound like much but over the course of a fight it would add up to some significant healing, saving healers at least a few extra GCD's over the course of a boss.

PLD - Bring back Rage of Halone baby! As with PS and BB combos, this will put a 2% increased damage taken debuff on the target, as well as the "Blinding Light" debuff for 30s. Blinding Light makes it so that anyone within 5y of the PLD takes 1% less damage from all sources, while the PLD takes .5% additional damage for each person who benefits from the Blinding Light effect. A full raid stack would have everyone taking 1% less overall damage while the PLD takes 3.5% more damage. A typical "solo MT in front" situation would see PLD damage taken unchanged, while pairing up next to the OT for a mechanic would cause a negligible .5% incoming damage increase. 1% damage may not seem like much, but we've all known that dps who survived with single digit life before; every bit of mitigation helps, but it's not so much mitigation (nor is it easy mitigation to manage outside of general raid stack stuff) that it gives PLD too much of an edge.

GNB - Add a second cartridge combo. Call it "Trigger Blast" or something, I dunno. Potency-wise it would be about 80% of what Renzokuken does (not counting Cont.) but it would instead refund the cartridge used upon successful execution and then apply the "Mauled" debuff for 30s. As above, Mauled would increase damage taken to the target by 2% while also reducing damage dealt by the target to the GNB by 5%. GNB damage as-is feels pretty good; the addition of a combo that's 80% as strong as Renzokuken (and also refunds the cartridge used) is already a stout little dps bump, so the Mauled debuff plays into that by addressing GNB's key weakness of being the squishiest of all the tanks. It's chief benefit is while MTing of course, but it's also useful for taking the edge off of raid-wides and shared busters.

All of these 2% damage increase debuffs would stack with one another, but never more than two separate instances at a time. This means you could run any combination of two tanks, but only up to two tanks and reap the full benefit from the debuffs. Three tanks (or more in the case of big stuff like hunts or FATE's) would still get the personal benefit from their debuffs, but the damage increase would be capped at 4% regardless of how many debuffs were placed on the mob.

[Nedkel]

So much of unnecessary fluff.
Giving combos with buffs is not the answer to anything, people hate them especially one digit % buffs. Human perception regocnizes change starting at 10%, anything below is something that you wont notice.
Tank mains would start a revolution after all those changes, not only you are tying their gameplay to trash buffs, but also making fun of them, here waste 10 seconds in order to apply 2% dmg buff, really. xD
Reddit would blow up with memes.

[Kabooa]

So much of unnecessary fluff.
Giving combos with buffs is not the answer to anything, people hate them especially one digit % buffs. Human perception regocnizes change starting at 10%, anything below is something that you wont notice.
Tank mains would start a revolution after all those changes, not only you are tying their gameplay to trash buffs, but also making fun of them, here waste 10 seconds in order to apply 2% dmg buff, really. xD
Reddit would blow up with memes.

"Tanks need 1000 dps"

"Here's a change that gives tanks in raids an average of 1800-2400 DPS scaling as the game goes on."

"lolwtfisthistrash meme, lol, get this out."

[Satarn]

"Tanks need 1000 dps"

"Here's a change that gives tanks in raids an average of 1800-2400 DPS scaling as the game goes on."

"lolwtfisthistrash meme, lol, get this out."

Don't you know that anything that's lower than 500 pot is just unnecessary fluff? Also 500 is bigger than 4x140, because not missing casts is too hard.

Human perception regocnizes change starting at 10%, anything below is something that you wont notice.

Which is why nobody cared about 3% Foe's and 2% crit songs and BRD was unwanted in SB... oh wait.