How do we feel about tank damage right now?

[Kabooa]

So much of unnecessary fluff.
Giving combos with buffs is not the answer to anything, people hate them especially one digit % buffs. Human perception regocnizes change starting at 10%, anything below is something that you wont notice.
Tank mains would start a revolution after all those changes, not only you are tying their gameplay to trash buffs, but also making fun of them, here waste 10 seconds in order to apply 2% dmg buff, really. xD
Reddit would blow up with memes.

"Tanks need 1000 dps"

"Here's a change that gives tanks in raids an average of 1800-2400 DPS scaling as the game goes on."

"lolwtfisthistrash meme, lol, get this out."

[Nedkel]

"Tanks need 1000 dps"

"Here's a change that gives tanks in raids an average of 1800-2400 DPS scaling as the game goes on."

"lolwtfisthistrash meme, lol, get this out."

From the changes proposed, DRK dps will not change at all, 6% haste is not going to translate into 5% damage, because: oGCD damage is there and not affected by it, you will need 100% active time which is not even possible for 99% DRK. Warrior will have another unnecessary combo next to the Storms eye, PLD would have 2k rDPS higher than any other tank and be less fun to play, giving GNB another cartridge skill with 30 seconds debuff its even worse than WAR storms eye...
On top of that all theses change will be useless against multitarget, and we are yet again balancing the game basing on single target instead of looking at the whole.
2-3% dmg change for a exchange of a fluff skills that would be painful to squeeze in the rotation.

Don't you know that anything that's lower than 500 pot is just unnecessary fluff? Also 500 is bigger than 4x140, because not missing casts is too hard.
Which is why nobody cared about 3% Foe's and 2% crit songs and BRD was unwanted in SB... oh wait.

Do you want to tell me that you actually like an idea to give a warrior second "storms eye" combo to use before he starts IR, and not only that but also to give PLD the same treatment, but what PLD is guilty for to punish him with such of an unnecessary bloat?! GNB will not be better, DRK will just consfuse everyone who is not into parsing.
Not all ideas that are "solving something" (and brining new problems to the table) are good ideas, especially if they are directly affecting the fun out from the job.
Instead we could increase scaling and give warrior some nice and hard hitting skill to line up with IR, it will be better.

[Quor]

So much of unnecessary fluff.
Giving combos with buffs is not the answer to anything, people hate them especially one digit % buffs. Human perception regocnizes change starting at 10%, anything below is something that you wont notice.
Tank mains would start a revolution after all those changes, not only you are tying their gameplay to trash buffs, but also making fun of them, here waste 10 seconds in order to apply 2% dmg buff, really. xD
Reddit would blow up with memes.

Average TA gain over the course of 60s is ~1.66% damage (using current TA values). My idea gives tanks a better TA (2% instead of 1.66%) for nothing more than - at most - 3 GCD's of input. On top of that, there are other mechanics to manage beyond simply boosted damage that provide greater engagement for each tank. And yet, you still complain. Of course, looking at your next post, it's clear you don't want more complexity (what you describe as "bloat") and instead simply want buffed damage.

From the changes proposed, DRK dps will not change at all, 6% haste is not going to translate into 5% damage, because: oGCD damage is there and not affected by it, you will need 100% active time which is not even possible for 99% DRK.

Which is why it's a 60s debuff instead of 30s, and also gives MP. PS on it's own just provides a haste buff, but with the debuff added from the Dark Arts effect, DRK is gaining a good chunk of MP in a raid situation. The values could be adjusted up or down as needed of course. Maybe the MP regained needs to be doubled or something, but the idea is that the MP accounts for the lack of effect on oGCD damage by increasing the number of oGCD's available (specifically Edge).

Warrior will have another unnecessary combo next to the Storms eye, PLD would have 2k rDPS higher than any other tank and be less fun to play, giving GNB another cartridge skill with 30 seconds debuff its even worse than WAR storms eye...

PLD is already fine as it is, with two distinct damage periods that create a nice flow among themselves. RoH will fit nicely into the dead time between each period. Yes, it's "just movement on the keyboard" if a person wants to be facetious about it, but it's also another timer the PLD needs to watch and maintain for proper optimization. As it stands, many people in this thread, yourself included, seem to be advocating for a "one button wonder" approach that turns this game into the bastard child of MMO's and Cow Clicker. Adding an extra timer to watch and optimize around, one with a tangible reward (which can be adjusted up if needed) adds challenge and complexity to the game. Both of which people in this thread (who also advocate for increased tank damage) say that they want. Well, there's your complexity. I dare you to come up with something better.

On top of that all theses change will be useless against multitarget, and we are yet again balancing the game basing on single target instead of looking at the whole.
2-3% dmg change for a exchange of a fluff skills that would be pain in the a55 to squeeze in the rotation, no thanks rotlf.

Absolutely no one gives a damn about aoe situations. The entire premise of this thread has been focused around raid dps, which is overwhelmingly single target. Stop introducing unrelated topics into the discussion.

Of course and this is reason why we should make jobs play like po po, to buff them for 2% dps wise, cool. xD
You are defending an idea to give a warrior second "storms eye" combo to use before he starts IR, and not only that but also to give PLD the same treatment, seriously what PLD is guilty for to punish him with such of an unnecessary bloat?! GNB will not be better, DRK will just consfuse everyone who is not into parsing.
Not all ideas that are "solving something" (and brining new problems to the table) are good ideas.

Better than the tripe you constantly vomit up. I'm offering constructive suggestions; you're laughing at an rDPS increase that's greater than TA and calling it "useless." Also, this entire thread wouldn't exist if it weren't for ACT and FFlogs, so any take your "consfuse" and shove it.

"Tanks need 1000 dps"

"Here's a change that gives tanks in raids an average of 1800-2400 DPS scaling as the game goes on."

"lolwtfisthistrash meme, lol, get this out."

Well put and hilarious.

[Nedkel]

Average TA gain over the course of 60s is ~1.66% damage (using current TA values). My idea gives tanks a better TA (2% instead of 1.66%) for nothing more than - at most - 3 GCD's of input. On top of that, there are other mechanics to manage beyond simply boosted damage that provide greater engagement for each tank. And yet, you still complain. Of course, looking at your next post, it's clear you don't want more complexity (what you describe as "bloat") and instead simply want buffed damage.

Lets assume its still a gain, im not going to argue with it.
You will need 3 GCD uses to apply it, the skills you are going to use need to give much more than the 2% dmg buff, otherwise it wont be used by majority of playerbase.
Complexity is subjective, for ones GNB is already complex, for someone who play dps jobs its not.
Giving GNB, PLD and WAR another GCD combo they have to go for before doing cool stuff is going to hurt these jobs, regardless of the 0.4% dps gain that ACT will barely even be able to recognise, and yes i mean here aDPS.
But you got the idea on DRK part, yes those buffs are too small, the numbers are small, tanks are not buff class, those buffs need to be higher otherwise it will look like you are making a fun out of people who play tanks.
Dancer going to have some nice stuff +300 potency (just speculating) to the cool skill they use, and next to these changes tank are going to get buffs 2% to damage. And SE are going to write in the patch notes this: Dear tank players we recognize that white mage is able to outdps you by pressing few buttons, so we decided to buff your jobs accordingly by 2% in form of the 7 seconds drudgery so you are going to do the same damage, no need to thank us.

Absolutely no one gives a damn about aoe situations. The entire premise of this thread has been focused around raid dps, which is overwhelmingly single target. Stop introducing unrelated topics into the discussion.

A good dev takes into account all situations in which each class finds itself in.
Raids does not have to be only single target, also these is eureka, Dungeons, alliance raids, world PVE all of which are going to be important part of the game at one time or another.

Better than the tripe you constantly vomit up. I'm offering constructive suggestions; you're laughing at an rDPS increase that's greater than TA and calling it "useless." Also, this entire thread wouldn't exist if it weren't for ACT and FFlogs, so any take your "consfuse" and shove it.

I dont like 2% damage buff in form of additional "storms eye" buttons, its called bloat and its not a good design, even assuming it will serve its purpose, there are much better ways to increase tanks damage and increase it not only in raids.

Nah, I never said those were great propositions or whatever, in fact I haven't even properly read all of them.
I'm merely poking fun at how unconstructive and out of touch your rebuttals always are, lol. You mock other person's ideas trying to sound like you know better, but you just show how little you understand of how numbers work. Again.
Full uptime 2% vuln that works for entire raid would be pretty damn significant and most people don't care that your perception "recognizes change starting at 10% and that anything below is something that you wont notice".

You dont even know what we are discussing here, you are attacking me on my opinion about something you didnt even care to read. (ง ͠° ͟ل͜ ͡°)ง

[Satarn]

You dont even know what we are discussing here, you are attacking me on my opinion about something you didnt even care to read. (ง ͠° ͟ل͜ ͡°)ง

I've read enough. Don't exactly need full context to know that calling 2% for entire raid at full uptime a "waste of 10 seconds", is laughably inaccurate, or that "lul, reddit would be mad" is a shite argument.

[Nedkel]

I've read enough. Don't exactly need full context to know that calling 2% for entire raid at full uptime a "waste of 10 seconds", is laughably inaccurate, or that "lul, reddit would be mad" is a shite argument.

Because it is from the design standing point.
You are a TANK, not a buffer and you put this buff behind 3 GCD use.
If you want to maximise your dps output you will have to turn this on first and then go into the meat, in some cases you are going to use 6 GCD before getting to the action part of your gamplay and this is unnecessary fluff. We could as well make a job that has only GCD and all of them are party buffs, sure team will love to have them in team, but only in specific duties and not always and playing it outside raids will be a pain.
I dont play a tank to be a raid-only second class weak buffer, 2% could be good party buff but we are talking here about personal tank damage, lol.

[Satarn]

Because it is from the design standing point.
You are a TANK, not a buffer and you put this buff behind 3 GCD use.
If you want to maximise your dps output you will have to turn this on first and then go into the meat, in some cases you are going to use 6 GCD before getting to the action part of your gamplay and this is unnecessary fluff. We could as well make a job that has only GCD and all of them are party buffs, sure team will love to have them in team, but only in specific duties and not always and playing it outside raids will be a pain.
I dont play a tank to be a raid-only second class weak buffer, 2% could be good party buff but we are talking here about personal tank damage, lol.

First of all, debuffs are way more conventional tank identity than personal damage, there's games where tanks are primary debuffers. In fact all FFXIV tanks used to have defensive debuff combos up until SB, WAR used to have a slashing dmg vulnerability skill until SHB and in PVP all tanks used to have combos that made things easier to kill, be it through straight up vuln or by reducing healing.

Second of all, you don't understand what "fluff" or "button bloat" means if you think that an extra combo which provides a strong debuff that you want to keep up at all times is those things. You can argue that it's clunky and badly designed due to the opener concerns you added later, sure, but If something changes your rotation and becomes a regular part of it, while providing a significant advantage, it ain't no "fluff". You know what is fluff? Current Darkside, because it's really just a side-effect of something you'd do regardless and could as well be a passive.

That doesn't even matter though, because third of all, your initial "lul meme skills, reddit would be angry" post was mocking the 2% part specifically and that was what I made fun of. You can backpedal all you want, but you dismissed a huge rDPS gain as garbage, because you - as you yourself so proudly admitted - don't register numbers lower than 10, lol.

[Satarn]

Do you want to tell me that you actually like an idea to give a warrior second "storms eye" combo to use before he starts IR, and not only that but also to give PLD the same treatment, but what PLD is guilty for to punish him with such of an unnecessary bloat?! GNB will not be better, DRK will just consfuse everyone who is not into parsing.
Not all ideas that are "solving something" (and brining new problems to the table) are good ideas, especially if they are directly affecting the fun out from the job.
Instead we could increase scaling and give warrior some nice and hard hitting skill to line up with IR, it will be better.

Nah, I never said those were great propositions or whatever, in fact I haven't even properly read all of them.

I'm merely poking fun at how unconstructive and out of touch your rebuttals always are, lol. You mock other person's ideas trying to sound like you know better, but you just show how little you understand of how numbers work. Again.

Full uptime 2% vuln that works for entire raid would be pretty damn significant and most people don't care that your perception "recognizes change starting at 10% and that anything below is something that you wont notice".