Eden Savage Loot

[Mavrias]

LOL i havent moved the goal post and your remarks are childish- and you have not proven me wrong but feel free to think you have I mean if that is what you need - my argument is still the EXACT same - my argument is this - This system is amazing for people who are in statics - but very unfriendly to people who Pug - it also allowes people to gear multiple classes while some struggle to gear their main class - I think this needs to be evened out by implementing a need / greed system - That is my argument that has REMAINED the exact same





You were being elitist





I have said a number of times it was suggested by one of the other people - and I said it was a good idea and that I agreed with it - like I agreed with the need / greed - and implementing a system that read the partys make up - did you not read their comments.






My maths is not wrong you just haven't paid any attention to what people have suggested be implemented there has already a solution to this been thought up . . .again if you I must explain to you the following 2 tanks 1 chest = 50% 2 healers - 1 chest = 50% 4 DPS 2 chests = 50% (DPS chance are 25% and 33R%) Also just an FYI most statics were geared up very quickly Im generally talking about a system that is more friendly to pugs, and this I believe is it.




I haven't contradicted myself - also can I just explain when I have said PEOPLE I have meant PEOPLE (i generally say people for more than 1 person) if I am talking to 1 person I say You, I assumed everyone did the same. Also If people do not need savage gear to do savage please explain why you insist people roll for savage gear for their alts and allow it to take priority over someone who is rolling for their main, my opinion is a need and greed system would be better - and it would be. And I also believe I said people would find it more appealing if the loot system was more structured - I believe they would. Would you be more likely to enter something knowing its just you and a few others - or would you go in to something happy if it was you and like hundreds of others competing for stuff - Personally I would prefer the first thats why I suggested structuring the loot (well someone else suggested how) and implementing a need greed and 1 item per person sort of thing, people will be more attracted to things when they have higher chances of getting items and that's just a general fact of life

Someone rolling for their alt isnt taking priority over you. They need it for a class, you need it for a class. You both roll need, so you have equal priority. You just have to out roll them. Honestly this whole thread has primarily been you arguing to not have to compete with others for rolls. If you want that then honestly the best thing for you to do would be to make a lootmaster party.

[ForteNightshade]

LOL i havent moved the goal post and your remarks are childish- and you have not proven me wrong but feel free to think you have I mean if that is what you need - my argument is still the EXACT same - my argument is this - This system is amazing for people who are in statics - but very unfriendly to people who Pug - it also allowes people to gear multiple classes while some struggle to gear their main class - I think this needs to be evened out by implementing a need / greed system - That is my argument that has REMAINED the exact same

And three different people now in the last two pages have all pointed out how your argument is wrong yet you making different addendum to it. Earlier you cited the Primal weapons and accessories, which use the old system. You never once suggested that be changed to a 1/1/2 loot drop. You simply cited the Primals and said nothing else otherwise. Furthermore, pointing out how you keep changing your arguments is not childish. Don't let the snark attached? Stop moving the goal post or...

You were being elitist

No the water is not red - I never said it was - I said your statement was wrong and it was sorry if that upset you

Insisting you're right because you say so. Please explain how saying you have to be good enough to clear Savage while undergeared is in any way elitist? Are you really going to cling to this "it's not what you said but how you said it?!" nonsense? And you want to talk about childish...

I have said a number of times it was suggested by one of the other people - and I said it was a good idea and that I agreed with it - like I agreed with the need / greed - and implementing a system that read the partys make up - did you not read their comments.

Great! Either quote them or reiterate the suggestion in your own posts when someone replies because nothing you've stated insinuated half the arguments you're now making. I shouldn't have to go back and comb through every post in the thread. Present the argument yourself/

My maths is not wrong you just haven't paid any attention to what people have suggested be implemented there has already a solution to this been thought up . . .again if you I must explain to you the following 2 tanks 1 chest = 50% 2 healers - 1 chest = 50% 4 DPS 2 chests = 50% (DPS chance are 25% and 33R%) Also just an FYI most statics were geared up very quickly Im generally talking about a system that is more friendly to pugs, and this I believe is it.

As stated... again. You're conflating two different things; two DPS drops compared to two useful DPS drops that can never be duplicated. The latter is an important distinction because if two Maiming pieces can drop (Head and Feet), then it isn't 50% by any metric. And yes, statics can clear quickly. Your solution will make that even faster because you're increasing the loot. Tanks and Healers often wait a few weeks before receiving gear since DPS matters more for prog. Your suggestion guarantees they get a coffer each week; possibly with no chance at a duplicate. Four people are getting gear, including weapons, bodies and legs instead of one—two if you happen to get lucky with the random weapon drop. For statics, you'll be done in less a month for everything but accessories.

None of this covers the tome upgrade items. Are we going to divvy those up based on role too? And gearing alts under your revised system forces you to do so on lesser geared jobs since the game won't drop anything unless that job's in the party.

I haven't contradicted myself - also can I just explain when I have said PEOPLE I have meant PEOPLE (i generally say people for more than 1 person) if I am talking to 1 person I say You, I assumed everyone did the same. Also If people do not need savage gear to do savage please explain why you insist people roll for savage gear for their alts and allow it to take priority over someone who is rolling for their main, my opinion is a need and greed system would be better - and it would be. And I also believe I said people would find it more appealing if the loot system was more structured - I believe they would. Would you be more likely to enter something knowing its just you and a few others - or would you go in to something happy if it was you and like hundreds of others competing for stuff - Personally I would prefer the first thats why I suggested structuring the loot (well someone else suggested how) and implementing a need greed and 1 item per person sort of thing, people will be more attracted to things when they have higher chances of getting items and that's just a general fact of life

... I don't know how many ways I can explain to you that wanting something is not the same as needing it. You don't need Savage gear for Savage since, you know, you have to be able to complete Savage to actually get drops from it. You want better gear. They are not the same thing. That person rolling for their alt jobs contributed to the clear just as much as you—possibly more depending on skill. Why should they be entitled to nothing because they happen to be gearing a second job while you'e still on your first? Furthermore, you know what will happen with your purposed system? People won't join PFs on their better geared mains, they'll join on weaker jobs so they can Need potential drops. If I want Ninja or Tank gear, I'll join a party as one of those jobs in i450 instead of my i470 Dragoon since doing so on the latter guarantees I can nothing.

[HyoMinPark]

Okay firstly you said about a system earlier being implemented to read the party's make up - this would stop useless drops at least the majority of them - also this would allow people to gear their alts if double drops did happen - No I am not confusing anything and the numbers you just gave I already gave and these numbers are based off of using the things you suggested. Yes it would not 100% eliminate double drops but then that would allow people to gear alt classes (which is what would keep statics happy) but also at the same time allow people to gear their mains as a priority

I was using a specific comp with drops limited to that comp in my example. It wasn’t taking into accounts drops that players don’t need—hence the values that I gave.

First DPS drop: 25% chance for each of the DPS. In my example, it was SAM/NIN/DNC/BLM—in the loot table I provided, the pieces that could drop were Slaying (SAM), Scouting (NIN), Aiming (DNC), and Casting (BLM). 4 possible piece types, 1 out of 4 chance that any given DPS would get an item—25%.

Second DPS drop: Assuming this system doesn’t allow for duplicates, it’s now a 33% chance for any of the other 3 DPS to get a piece of gear. So, if the first piece was for the BLM, 33% chance for a Slaying (SAM), Scouting (NIN), or Aiming (DNC) piece. 3 possible piece types, 1 out of 3 chance that any of the remaining DPS could get an item—33%. The values do not change.

2 DPS potentially getting a gear drop does not make this 50%. There is a probability that the item that drops for the BLM isn’t BiS, which would make it a worthless drop. There’s a probability that the second item that dropped isn’t BiS for the player it dropped for—let’s say the Scouting boots dropped; they aren’t BiS because they have skill speed on them (NINs hate SkS). Both DPS drops were worthless, so they actually didn’t get anything.

dont worry I was just wondering if you were alright

Oh, I’m quite fine. Just tired after a long day.

[ForteNightshade]

Other people have - please do read what others have said - and OR what is that a threat or an attempt at one ?

Your attitude is very bad yes you have even tried to threaten me and all you have done is come off as stand off ish and aggressive in that manor - I mean "STOP MOVING THE GOAL POST OR " thats a threat

If you deem this a threat, I don't even know where to begin except to laugh. Telling someone not to continuously change their argument or abruptly say "go back and read every single post" isn't a threat nor is making snarky comments. The fact you've thrown around elitism and now take offense this easily shows why that term lost all meaning years ago.

Read what others have said you have eyes just like I do please read the past comments

Make your own arguments. I shouldn't have to go back and comb through every single post because you can't be bothered to make the argument yourself. Or perhaps better stated, make it clear and concise instead of getting into a pissing match with everyone who disagrees with you.

Correct it is not and the people who are gearing their alts in opposed to people gearing their mains are WANTING and GREEDING things that they do not actually need as they have already geared their main class and could be put to better use by others who NEED things

Neither do you. No one needs the gear. They want it. How difficult is that to comprehend? You want the gear for your main, and they want it for their alt jobs. You both contributed yet only you want rewards. Once again, you can ask people pass since you're trying to gear your main but they aren't obligated to do so.

[ForteNightshade]

Have not changed it once - my point was and still is that the loot system is unfair and it is very hard for people who PUG things to gear and others have said the same - and your opinion is not a fact - you did sound elitist you did sound as if you were making a threat.

You've changed it several times. Earlier you were prattling on about the Primal system, claiming it was so much better. Despite it literally being the old Savage system with total RNG. HyoMin literally quoted where you changed your argument and you handwaved it by claiming she misinterpreting you.

Basically, it's always someone else's fault. If you have to continuously tell people "go back and read every single post" and they're still finding contradictions. Maybe it's a you problem...

Made my argument and backed it up and others have agreed, if you can not be bothered to READ why should i have to REPEAT myself for you

Please quote where they specifically agree with. Note the word specifically. People citing the current system needs work doesn't mean they agree with you. They merely want to improve what's already there not change it entirely.

our language is foul honestly. . . .this just shows what you consider acceptable behaviour - threats - foul language - insults. . . .

Today I learned the word "piss" is foul language...

Where dose billy say she agrees with Hyomin ????? Quote it if you can, you cant dont worry because you made this up Billys post was on page 1 before Hyomin even posted . . . so unless your saying this person can see in to the future and agreed with Hyomin you are not being truthful here are you. . . her last post was on page 5 but again nothing about agreeing with hyomin

Also they are agreeing with me the system dose need work they both openly say this - how do you not get that ????? Both people and even more than these two agree there is something wrong with this current system which is what I have been saying therefore they agree there is something wrong with the current system - which is what I am saying - therefore they are agreeing with me, they even say it should be improved on. . .

Also you have quoted a number of things out of context - you have made threats - you have used foul language - you have insulted me - you now even lied about others. . . .Says everything I need to know

... do you understand basic English? Note where I cited Billy; immediately after referencing Noitem's making suggestions to tweak the current system. Those were two separate points: you quoting Noitems out of context, and his and Billy not readily agreeing you but still wanting tweaks made to the current system for pugs. I find it quite ironic you then go on to accuse me of lying when you literally omitted a paragraph of someone else's post because it went against your stance. Pot and kettle much?

Saying they went to see improvements is not the same as completely overhauling the system. You want to go back to the old system except make xyz changes. That's radically different than saying suggesting improvements—which I have suggested myself.

Furthermore, how have I quoted anything out of context? I've literally been quoting you and doing "snips" because your posts are half a mile long and go on random tangents. If you're saying you're out of context, I agree.