How do we feel about tank damage right now?

[ForteNightshade]

E2S Guillotine's will kill people if the boss isn't centered correctly. A real problem on Cycles.

Not really. Even if Voidwalker were positioned diagonally, you can still dodge Guillotine just fine so long as people pay attention. And that's a rather extreme example since at best, he'll be slightly tilted. But should we count that an example. Okay... one mechanic spanning four fights. Not exactly what I'd call a big impact. Unfortunately, positioning largely involves inching the boss up slightly or moving it back to center, eventually. It's never been a significant aspect of tanking in FFXIV.

Which is why I (and others) advocate for increased "tank stuff" to do in lieu of turning us even more into a dps and homogenizing the game even further.

I'll reiterate. It's been six years. If they were going to put greater emphasise on tank responsibility. They would have by now. Asking for a return to their SB scaling is simply betting on the horse you believe SE will actually listen to. It's why the Healer forum doesn't bother asking for a buffs and debuffs style of gameplay in lieu of just DPSing in their downtime. They know SE isn't going to implement it.

Tanks were not nerfed. Our damage went up substantially with the release of ShB. If our damage had been lowered by a certain % since the beginning of ShB then that would be a nerf but that hasn't happened. Raw tank damage is much higher than it was in SB. How much that damage has increased relative to other roles is irrelevant because comparing damage across roles is meaningless.

Actually, it's quite relevant because it directly correlates with how our scaling was changed arbitrary. Looking strictly at pDPS for comparison sake. Tanks went from roughly a 3k difference to nearly double. Others have already calculated the estimated loss, and we have Yoshida outright claiming he believed tanks contributed too much damage. It's undeniable tanks scaled significantly lower compared to Stormblood. Now if that change accompanied increased tank mechanics, be they boss positioning, debuffs or the necessitate of more mitigation, one might argue it a fair trade off. It didn't. We're simply weaker—comparatively speaking—because reasons.

Again, tank damage has not been lowered, it just hasn't been increased as much as it could be. This has had no negative effect on the game; tanks can clear all content, solo, 4-man, and 8-man, without any problems. EX fights were being cleared with ilvl 430 weapons within hours of people reaching 80. Savage was cleared within 24 hours of it's release. The only reason this is any kind of issue is because some people saw a bunch of numbers and decided that their numbers weren't big enough, and that this made their tank job less fun.

Remember; increased complexity isn't going to mean more damage. It'll simply mean damage is shifted from one part of the job kit to another, essentially giving more buttons to press while getting the same return as before. Tank damage is objectively fine right now, both within the tanks and as a part of the larger game. Content is being cleared just fine by a variety of compositions. There is no need for a tank damage buff. There is simply a desire by a small group of people to see larger numbers, and to hell with how this will affect the balance of the game.

Please do not use the "they can clear content" excuse. Not only does it dismiss the argument but is, frankly, rubbish. Bard can clear everything yet gets stomped into the ground by a decent Black Mage.

That tangent aside, I never said tanking was less fun. I mean, I'm switching from a DPS to a tank because I still enjoy the latter quite a bit. None of this has anything to do with complexity. I'll say this once again. I simply find it silly a job with upwards of a fourteen button rotation; which is punished far more should they mess up said rotation, can be matched by a job with three; less if you take out oGCDs. You keep suggesting increasing the tanks DPS will lead to homogenization yet they already are, and always have been, beefier DPS. That does not change if tanks are doing 8,000 or 12,000. Because of that design, however, people typically find it more fun seeing higher numbers. There's a reason FFlogs is so widely popular.

But more so, it's the arbitrary nature of the nerf that upsets some people. And yes, it is a nerf. What did SE offer tanks in exchange for slicing their scaling? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. You simply do less damage now comparatively because they felt tanks contributed too much. That alone rubs a lot of people the wrong way.