How do we feel about tank damage right now?

[Deceptus]

Dude. What else do need for further proof? These people showed you evidence, the math, and everything. What else do you need to realize that tanks DID change? Do you not see that WHM is capable to out DPS the tanks? Does that not tell you or something???? Or maybe you're just that blunt and don't acknowledge it.

You're getting to the point were people gonna be done replying to your nonsense....

Is it possible that a WHM can out DPS a tank? Yes but only in fringe circumstances where the WHM is playing the absolute best they can, where they don't heal much at all.

And those fringe cases are generally accepted to be outliers and shouldn't be used to balance jobs. Because in average cases of healer vs tank damage, tank wins every time.

Again, if you're concerned about DPS numbers, play a DPS, the primary role assigned to do damage.

Average DPS numbers

^^ That box in the middle is what you need to be looking at, not the very far right edge of healers compared to the very far left edge of tanks.

However, ultimately it's up to SE and they've decided that they don't want tanks and healers to be large contributors to raid damage.

Do I agree with it? As a healer No. I'd love to have more complex things to do during downtime that just 2111111111111. Be grateful that's not your damage rotation from lvl 4 to lvl 80. Do I have to live with it? As a player playing their games, Yes.

[Quor]

man theres a whole lot of self opinion pushing here.

How am i selfish for wanting to contribute more to my entire party?

If you want to completely ignore everything I said in the post immediately before yours, by all means, go ahead.

[Zarkovitch]

War needs more DMG.
Fell cleave need to be 690 potency
Eye buff 30 to 40
Gap closer A freebie skill
Drk need QOL(which leads more dmg).
remove salted earth put dot effect on abyssal drain.
Blood weapon add 1 sec more.
Summon Fray 120 secs to 90 secs.
Add DH on delirium

those classes shouldn't be beated by a PLD

[Nedkel]

Is it possible that a WHM can out DPS a tank? Yes but only in fringe circumstances where the WHM is playing the absolute best they can, where they don't heal much at all.
And those fringe cases are generally accepted to be outliers and shouldn't be used to balance jobs. Because in average cases of healer vs tank damage, tank wins every time.

Again, if you're concerned about DPS numbers, play a DPS, the primary role assigned to do damage.

Average DPS numbers
^^ That box in the middle is what you need to be looking at, not the very far right edge of healers compared to the very far left edge of tanks.
However, ultimately it's up to SE and they've decided that they don't want tanks and healers to be large contributors to raid damage.
Do I agree with it? As a healer No. I'd love to have more complex things to do during downtime that just 2111111111111. Be grateful that's not your damage rotation from lvl 4 to lvl 80. Do I have to live with it? As a player playing their games, Yes.

This is what blizzard said before they buffed tanks into DPS monsters who could literally solo dungeons (DK).

The amount of tanks in WoW was so pathetic because of this philosophy that was driven in blizzard "dps for dps, tank for tank duuh" people were unable to use DF because it took infinite amount of time to find anything nobody wanted to play useless meat that cant do anything.
FFXIV is not any different in this matter, its even worse.
Not buffing tanks making them funnier to play will hurt everyone in the long run, eot.

[Shurrikhan]

War needs more DMG
<snip>
those classes shouldn't be beated by a PLD

And...why not? Admittedly, "beaten" isn't ideal, either, but why shouldn't PLD have roughly the exact same rDPS as DRK or WAR?

[Quor]

This is what blizzard said before they buffed tanks into DPS monsters who could literally solo dungeons (DK).

The amount of tanks in WoW was so pathetic because of this philosophy that was driven in blizzard "dps for dps, tank for tank duuh" people were unable to use DF because it took infinite amount of time to find anything nobody wanted to play useless meat that cant do anything.
FFXIV is not any different in this matter, its even worse.
Not buffing tanks making them funnier to play will hurt everyone in the long run, eot.

Yeah, I'm going to say that following in the design footsteps of Blizzard is not the right path to take. There's already enough homogenization between the tanks, we don't need to blur the lines between tanks and dps while we're at it. I'll reiterate what I said earlier; bring more engagement to tanks via tanky stuff. Group-wide mitigations and what not.

[Bravely_Default]

if they Leave tanks as is, players will leave the tank role. simple as that. if you want tanks to tank, it better be fun. You want to argue against tanks, have fun finding them in queue. Enmity is a joke now. tank damage out is a joke. boss damage against tanks is a joke.

[Kabooa]

if they Leave tanks as is, players will leave the tank role. simple as that. if you want tanks to tank, it better be fun. You want to argue against tanks, have fun finding them in queue. Enmity is a joke now. tank damage out is a joke. boss damage against tanks is a joke.

Oh man.

5 is so much less fun than 6.

[Deceptus]

FFXIV is not any different in this matter, its even worse. .

Currently since 5.0 we've had a healer shortage, not a tank shortage. For a myriad of reasons. Tanks aren't the special ones they used to be.

Not buffing tanks making them funnier to play will hurt everyone in the long run, eot.

If Big Numbers are your definition of fun there's 10 jobs that fill that role perfectly.

Yeah, I'm going to say that following in the design footsteps of Blizzard is not the right path to take. There's already enough homogenization between the tanks, we don't need to blur the lines between tanks and dps while we're at it. I'll reiterate what I said earlier; bring more engagement to tanks via tanky stuff. Group-wide mitigations and what not.

Agree with this. Healers should be the ones with the Defensive buffs (Shell CD for Magic, Protect for Physical etc)

[Shurrikhan]

Oh man.

5 is so much less fun than 6.

So long as 6 has new breakpoints that allow for more intensive and deliberate play, yes... yes it is.

Let's keep in mind that the argument you're replying to wasn't just about tank damage. It was also about enmity and damage taken, for instance.

Think of it like one of those output- or stat-distributions into a square or pentagram, each vertex marking some output. Previously there was a greater min-max range between any of those outputs, be it damage, or mitigation, or means of supporting the party. Now, it's almost static. There's little to push or pull on. Part of being a tank before was about deciding how we should spend our time, even if the answers were usually similarly narrow.