The most Limited Content: Low-Level Dungeons

[Jojoya]

It's more the opposite: I would be confused why a RDM can not raise or heal or do even a real melee rotation or when a White Mage with glowing weapons restricts him- or herself to the very basic first aid skills and you die from "something" you have skills for in your bar but greyed out.

Why would a new player be confused? The new player isn't going to know what's part of the job toolkit.

The irony is that always it's the higher level players who are ignorant about other jobs that start screaming for the RDM to rez a healer in low level dungeons.

If you are dying from something in a low level dungeon, that's a learn to play issue. Dungeons are designed for players to survive on what they have in their toolkits at the dungeon's level, not what's in the toolkit 30 levels later. Making those later abilities available would break the dungeon experience because you'd be nigh invincible.

[Flay_wind]

Eh, just give some aoe to most jobs at level 20 or so. It's kinda ridiculous on NIN, when earliest you have some sort of aoe is Quarn, and that's on 20 seconds timer.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Does that matter though in the long run? If this game already want veterans side by side with rookies, then it should make the full deal out of it. I would rather have less bonusses and more actual gameplay. I mean, I love Red Mage for what it is: The gameplay. If I want it for the bonus only and watch a bar and a number going up, I could play a numbers game.


Story-wise for those newbies it is also fitting: Warriors of light - in plural. It nowhere says all the player characters must all be level and skill restricted newbies, it says "Duty Finder" and not "Equally levelled players" and as said before, I would not be confused if high-levelled players use their skills. It's more the opposite: I would be confused why a RDM can not raise or heal or do even a real melee rotation or when a White Mage with glowing weapons restricts him- or herself to the very basic first aid skills and you die from "something" you have skills for in your bar but greyed out.

1.) Balancing Lv60-80 kits to work in pre-50 content will either result in:
- same-ish damage for vastly increased effort requirements (bad for the veteran)
- same-ish damage regardless of effort (effectively just prancing your fancy spell animations while rolling your face on the keyboard)
- increased damage, trivializing the impact other party members were supposed to have and making it all about levels (bad for new players)

Pick your poison, because all of them are terrible.

2.) Oh boy, lore justification.

Doing old content is not us actually "doing" the content but rather regalling in memories of it, reimagining party members and results. The reason why we dont reimagine high lv abilities is because we didn't have them there to begin with. What you ask for is us going full Wandering Minstrel and pull a Minstrel's Ballad out of our <KUPO>, vastly overexaggerating how impactful our memory is as is wont if done by our favourite Bard.

Frankly, we are no poetic minstrel, we're adventurers.

[LaylaTsarra]

Yes dev's spend all that time to cater to a few in the community who need their level 80 skills while running Satasha baby. Your time couldn't be better spent.

[Hash_Browns]

- same-ish damage for vastly increased effort requirements (bad for the veteran)

PLEASE GOD THIS MY ROTATION IN LOW LEVEL CONTENT IS:

Total Eclipse -> Fight or Flight -> Total Eclipse (x1000)

Yes dev's spend all that time to cater to a few in the community who need their level 80 skills while running Satasha baby. Your time couldn't be better spent.

Can't spare any dev time. The SE devs are hard at work in lab coats wondering how much potency to give Ninjas next, and on what skills. They are also toying with a few ways to F up the healers even further.

Will the devs ever figure out that Monk does more damage then SAM, while it also has more utility then SAM? The world may never know, but rumors are out that then plan on taking away a SAM skill, giving like.. 50.. sure 50 more potency on some other skills, and then giving back the skill they took away later!

Godspeed devs, GODSPEED..

[Lambdafish]

I thought the most limited content was BLU

[aiqa]

1.) Balancing Lv60-80 kits to work in pre-50 content will either result in:
- same-ish damage for vastly increased effort requirements (bad for the veteran)
- same-ish damage regardless of effort (effectively just prancing your fancy spell animations while rolling your face on the keyboard)
- increased damage, trivializing the impact other party members were supposed to have and making it all about levels (bad for new players)

Pick your poison, because all of them are terrible.

It's more fun and far easier to work with than the current situation.

Even when scaled down to level 15-50 a fully geared level 80 character is going to do much more DPS/healing/mitigation than a normal geared level 15-50 character.
So we are already at the "increased damage" option.

And there are a few jobs that are doing relatively good at level 50 content (for instance DNC and MCH), while others are missing such important parts of their toolkit they are much less useful (like SMN).
Giving jobs access to their full toolkit will make balancing that far easier.
While super strict balance might not be overly important for lower level content, it's certainly not a bad thing to have either.

And of course with every expansion more low level skills have been removed to make room for new high level skills.
So running the "boring not fun old low level dungeons" is now objectively more boring than in the past, and that will probably only get worse every expansion.

[Nora_of_Mira]

What new player needs to both get a feel of basic abilities and also is level 70?

Also just sit in front of a striking dummy for five or ten minutes.

I specifically mentioned 60 or 70 because of jump potions.

But I can relate something that happened to me this week. I just restarted Ninja this weekend which I had left at level 70 and had to fix hotbar. I did a normal raid duty which helped me get a feel for it again, but then in the leveling roulette I ended up with Sastasha with 90% of the buttons disabled and if anything I was losing the feel for the class because I wasn't able to practice the rotations anymore.

that's relearning a job you forgot, not learning a class for the first time.

[linay]

Games are supposed to be fun, but I doubt anyone will say getting Sastaha or Toto-Rak as a level 78 trying to get to Mt. Gulg is "fun" for their roulette when they're locked out of playing their job.

It's fun for me, now deal with that and just don't do it if you don't want to do low level dungeon rather than wanting SE to change low level dungeons.

Getting a low level dungeon essentially takes your job away from you because you lose all the skills that define the rotation.

It doesn't take my job away because my job (or class) starts at level 1 the moment I have my first ability to attack an enemy.

Why is my full 4 man 70+ party shoved into Sastasha when queueing for Leveling roullette, then? There is no lowlevel newbie to help. It's just needlessly frustrating.

Because it's random. When you sign up for a roulette, you sign up to get any of the duty that is available from that roulette.

Also, if you can ensure certain dungeons by doing it as a full party, people might try to do that more often rather than filling in the queue.

We aren't talking about SE just giving high level players their full kits and letting them go ham in Copperbell Mines. We are talking about SE balancing the kit in low level content, so it can be used in a low level content. The dungeons would still go at the same pace - the difference would be that high level players would have access to more tools, and require to do a proper rotation for the same damage.

I don't find it fun to have my high level skills be nerfed just so I can use it in low level dungeons. I also don't find it fun to have low level enemies in instanced duties that I could beat with low level skills to now require me to beat them with higher level skills.

[LaylaTsarra]

Godspeed devs, GODSPEED..

Yes I'm sure they're listening to all you have to say and will adjust all future content to meet your expectations. Don't worry you got their attention.