The most Limited Content: Low-Level Dungeons

[linay]

I fail to see how making content more enjoyable is a bad thing though.

Because there are people like me who find low level duties enjoyable for what they are. I don't want them changing these low level duties. Focus on making new high level duties.

[Noitems]

I fail to see how making content more enjoyable is a bad thing though.

I understand where you are coming from, but you need to remember these early dungeons aren't designed for us who have clearly reached endgame of the third expac, they're designed for new people just coming into the game.

Giving too many actions for new players is a sensory overload or leads to confusion, and they're not going to be able to refine themselves if they need to understand managing all of their cds. Let alone the high player mentality of getting these dungeons over asap and it's just going to lead to arguements when they don't understand what you're saying.

These skills are limited to reflect their progress, and it puts the core fundamentals in place for them. Hell WE the players with experience can also explain to them how to handle certain things or learn their kit so they can start getting into bigger pulls.

I know there's this argument going around about why they don't give us all the skills we have into the lower level jobs and nerf them for our much igher level jobs. To that end are we really asking the guys who are currently having balancing issues with our endgame ranged jobs to take the time to go and rework lvl 16 dungeons to shave off like 3 minutes a run?

If you're a group of experienced players who want a challenge then just do Wall to Walls like normal with proper cd management and Tank/Brd aoe. I used to joke a long time ago leveling my jobs in Stormblood using #MakeTamtarafun where I would pull wall to wall in Deepcroft as a WAR using my kit and berserk/overpower spam mobs to pieces. This was before the tank buffs and where aggro was actually something you needed to pay attention to. Things like that are ways you can make the lower level dungeons fun for the experienced players, pushing yourself to get it done as quickly as possible while having fun. Even now with current tank buffs the longest low level dungeons (Satasha and Copperbell) at most last about 17 minutes with a tank aoeing and proper management. That's the usual length of a current expert dungeon run too, so it's not even that long by comparison,

[MrKusakabe]

Giving too many actions for new players is a sensory overload or leads to confusion, and they're not going to be able to refine themselves if they need to understand managing all of their cds.

The newbies obviously keep their skillset low - because of their level.
We "veterans" however should not be crippled like that. When I am in a Roulette and can not even Corps-A-Corps, so after my 2-skill "rotation" I walk up to the enemy and whack him with my one melee attack and then have to walk back again. Not sure how that helps the newbie. It is even kinda counterproductive when you read about RDM and what you teach newbies is a lackluster "this-or-that" casting followd by "walk up to the enemy, do 3x some funny arm movements and then walk out" situation.

I would have less of a bonus. We get the bonus because these dungeons are terribly boring to play, but then we are supposed to come and help. Instead of making it fun, they slap a bonus over it. Eh...I am here to play and enjoy my fights, thanks. There is literally no difference between me doing a 120-damage Verflare or 15,000 - because the HP and everything scales. The dungeon would take the same time, the newbies keep their smaller skillset, we still keep the wait times low but I have fun meanwhile.

Putting a nonsensical band-aid over it ("you lose 85% of your spells that cripples your profession so much it's not even recognizable but get an EXP bonus for that") is worse than having no Roulette at all.

And let's be honest: Do you really care how your mates manage their skills? Do you really get distracted from that? No? Me neither. Why should a newbie then?

Sincerely,

[KadaRemnant]

The newbies obviously keep their skillset low - because of their level.
We "veterans" however should not be crippled like that. When I am in a Roulette and can not even Corps-A-Corps, so after my 2-skill "rotation" I walk up to the enemy and whack him with my one melee attack and then have to walk back again. Not sure how that helps the newbie. It is even kinda counterproductive when you read about RDM and what you teach newbies is a lackluster "this-or-that" casting followd by "walk up to the enemy, do 3x some funny arm movements and then walk out" situation.

I would have less of a bonus. We get the bonus because these dungeons are terribly boring to play, but then we are supposed to come and help. Instead of making it fun, they slap a bonus over it. Eh...I am here to play and enjoy my fights, thanks. There is literally no difference between me doing a 120-damage Verflare or 15,000 - because the HP and everything scales. The dungeon would take the same time, the newbies keep their smaller skillset, we still keep the wait times low but I have fun meanwhile.

Putting a nonsensical band-aid over it ("you lose 85% of your spells that cripples your profession so much it's not even recognizable but get an EXP bonus for that") is worse than having no Roulette at all.

And let's be honest: Do you really care how your mates manage their skills? Do you really get distracted from that? No? Me neither. Why should a newbie then?

Sincerely,

It will just create a mess, no thanks. I'm fine the way it is now. It has a balance, not like others mmos... Ffxiv is the best for making everyone work as a team in dungeons.

[ErryK]

Putting a nonsensical band-aid over it ("you lose 85% of your spells that cripples your profession so much it's not even recognizable but get an EXP bonus for that") is worse than having no Roulette at all.

So since you've put this forward yourself, why not just opt to not do the roulette at all if that's better?

[Kleeya]

Meanwhile, in SE headquarters :

- Hey guys, do you see how we struggle during whole months for correctly balancing the jobs with their full toolkits at lvl 80 ?
- Yes.
- And do you see how the community is never satisfied with it, and make a big fuss of everything being 0.14% lower than the other job on 99 fflogs percentile ?
- Ah er yes... That too.
- Now they want to unlock all the high level skills they have in leveling roulettes, and that we balance correctly dozens of dungeons so that for example a low level DRG only having single target skills in Satasha will be exactly the same performance and utility wise as a high level RDM having in it all his rotation toolkit + vercure + verraise.
- ...
- What do we do ?
- Throw this idea into the trash c... I mean, tell them "we are gonna look into it". Hey you other here, why did you start writing a resign letter ? Stop that, we still need you !

[ForteNightshade]

Meanwhile, in SE headquarters :

- Hey guys, do you see how we struggle during whole months for correctly balancing the jobs with their full toolkits at lvl 80 ?
- Yes.
- And do you see how the community is never satisfied with it, and make a big fuss of everything being 0.14% lower than the other job on 99 fflogs percentile ?
- Ah er yes... That too.
- Now they want to unlock all the high level skills they have in leveling roulettes, and that we balance correctly dozens of dungeons so that for example a low level DRG only having single target skills in Satasha will be exactly the same performance and utility wise as a high level RDM having in it all his rotation toolkit + vercure + verraise.
- ...
- What do we do ?
- Throw this idea into the trash c... I mean, tell them "we are gonna look into it". Hey you other here, why did you start writing a resign letter ? Stop that, we still need you !

This sarcasm would work better if it were actually true. Too bad that "big fuss" is nearly 10%; enough that the Physical Range are objectively worse than double Black Mage or triple Melee, and Red Mage has almost no reason to exist. So yeah... people kinda have a right to be upset.

That aside, on the one hand, I don't see giving us all our level 80 abilities at a hugely reduced potency is a pressing need. On the other, I admit, I tend to avoid Roulettes almost entirely once my jobs are leveled. I strictly stopped queuing for Leveling for four months leading up to ShB because I loathe being synced down to below 50. I almost never touch 50/60/70 since the EXP gains are trash, and I'm synced. I'll also likely avoid Alliance soon now that it's become Snore of the Ancients Bore Tower Roulette. Of course, one thing that Stormblood lack was a relic grind giving me an actual reason to even look at old content. But again, I much, much prefer being level 80. Or at least 70.

[Mahrze]

On one side: Easy, nigh brain dead content that usually serves for new players to adjust better to how jobs play than PotD. It only having 4-5 skills (to me) shows how brain dead it is. Getting things like Ifrit Normal (lv 20) or Cape Westwind in any roulette is basically a blessing.


On the other side: I understand that people would like to experience something better or that if its a full performed 70+ party it "should send you" to content that you can do in your own level range. And it is a roulette after all: dozens of dungeons for RNG to pick for you, even if you're lvl 79 and need one Mt Gulg run to lvl.


There are leveling alternatives, like PotD, BTQs starting lvl 40, even FATEs.

[Clouse_Cleyra]

Leveling roulette and the max dungeons of your level both gives 1/3 of a level (on high levels), so O dont understand why you dont fo your levwl dungeons if you want all your skills

[SerLuke]

I think the best compromise would be to make it so every job has an aoe skill they can use at lvl 15, no need to make entire lvl 80 kits available.