Monk needs to be nerfed hard. Change my mind.

[Sora_Oathkeeper]

I mean anyone who's good at their job should be planning regardless. Monk just needs less.

ROE has a really short cooldown for what it provides, and can almost be upkept the entire fight, so I still don't agree here.

It's not Battle Littany where you can only use it maybe once or twice a fight, Riddle can be used at least 3-4 times a trial fight, easily, which makes covering any missed positionals child's play when you also have the two charges of North Star that are on small cooldowns as well.

I'm sorry but I may not main monk for savage content but positionals are a moot point to me in ShB. Especially with RoE not requiring a stance change. IT's a fire and forget easy button to ignore half of the "detriment" to the kit. If directionals were harder and greased lightning was harder to upkeep and you couldn't have everyone generate chakra for you? Sure I could understand the payoff. But right now you're saying this one thing that is only a problem maybe a TINY percent of a fight is the reason they should compete with a selfish dps and still retain their utility. I just won't be down with that lol

You keep going on about competing with a selfish DPS. What exactly are you looking at? BLM IS the top personal DPS in the game. SAM needs to be buffed up to those levels. But these selfish DPS should not be better when you take into account the raid buffs provided by a MNK. Look on FFLOGs

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...gregate=amount

Minus 450-500 to get an idea of MNK's personal damage. It is below a BLM. it's only ahead due to raid contribution.

I'm sorry but everyone talking about buffs will trivialise the content. The content is already done, it's been done since 2 months ago. This may hurt for some people to hear, but if you haven't cleared it by now on whatever job, then the problem is skill. Any composition this late in can clear savage. It's already trivial now because it's outgeared so much. Buff the jobs that need buffing and scale 5.1 content accordingly. Done.
I have to wonder though, what sort of nerf are people wanting from MNK? There will always be a meta comp in this game. But when you have selfish DPS at the top of rDPS and pDPS then they automatically become lock-ins which is what we're seeing with BLM, SAM should have higher pDPS than MNK and at the top 100% of players, it does. But it needs to be higher across all percentiles, and only when factoring in support should MNK, NIN and DRG be ahead. Right now, the caster slot has absolutely no competition. NIN is only 500 away from MNK, DRG is like 300ish and SAM is in the middle. These jobs can all compete for the same slot, because 500dps is not that much at these DPS levels, unlike HW and SB. BLM is 1k ahead of SMN across all percentiles in all fights, and 1.3k ahead of RDM. It completely destroys them, in that sense BLM is overtuned hugely compared to the other casters. Ranged just need buffs, may as well take a 2nd BLM.

P.S Tobias, if you aren't playing MNK in savage, which is actually where job balance and player skill matters the most, how can you just ignore positionals? As a fundamental part of the job, regardless if RoE is easy to use (at most they could reduce the RoE to 10s maybe, but still give 30s of free positionals) I guess that would require a bit more thinking to using it maybe? would love to know how quick your Extreme trials are for a DRG to only use 1-2 Battle Litanys. an average encounter for each EX in PF is roughly around 9-10 mins I'd say. Which is easily 4 Battle Litanys. (Also MNK can only use RoE at the start of Innocence and Titania and then not again for a few more minutes because the lack of AoEs don't allow it to proc).

BRUUUUH It's more clear then ever you don't know how to read the logs from the site that shall not be named.

Insightful discussion. Please elaborate. I'd love to know what exactly was wrong. the site ranks based on raid dps or adjusted dps. Raid dps is better however to evaluate each dps's contributions to the group. Looking at my own logs I can see BH buffs the group by about 450-480dps. So, simply take that away from the rDPS rankings on MNK and there you have it. Of course, I'm only using my average raid contributions since I'm not delving into every group to see average out BH to take away the exact number from all percentiles. Feel free to tell me where I went wrong