5.08 Patch - DPS still not balanced.

[Kabooa]

Since you want to argue pointless semantic and put words in my mouth. I'll rephrase.

They aren't pointless.

Slacking doesn't mean 'make mistakes'. It means 'not put in as much effort as one could'. It creates a clear, intentional or not, message that doesn't serve the discussion at all. "THEY don't have to work as hard as YOU", which itself ignores the matter that you don't want that sort of player in your team, regardless of what job they're on.

[Dogempire]

They aren't pointless.

Slacking doesn't mean 'make mistakes'. It means 'not put in as much effort as one could'. It creates a clear, intentional or not, message that doesn't serve the discussion at all. "THEY don't have to work as hard as YOU", which itself ignores the matter that you don't want that sort of player in your team, regardless of what job they're on.

Except that people have different skill levels with this game, some people are able to easily pull 90th percentile dps on any job they want with minimal effort and only a bit of reading, while some have to work hard to be able to consistently pull dps above the 70th percentile, whether it be because you're new to mmos or because of age or even just because you don't have much talent for your job.

I've personally always been an advocate for "Play the job you're good at" because everyone has classes they suck at *cough* summoner *cough* but the issue that most people have when it comes to job balance is from the fact that a person who can perform at the 95th percentile on any job they choose but enjoys playing dancer or red mage the most and decides to main it for this savage tier is unintentionally putting a handicap on their group by not performing as well as they could at their dps percentile.

And by as well as they could, I mean that the 95th percentile red mage pulling 12.7k dps could be playing monk instead and pull a dps of 14,200 instead of a dps of 12.7k. That's a handicap of 1.5k on the group just because of job choice, and that handicap multiplies, scaling even higher with each lower end job that the group is running.

Obviously there will always be dps differences between jobs, and there will be some jobs that are much better than the others, but, a 1.5k rdps handicap should be from running 3 lower end jobs, not 1.

[Kabooa]

Obviously there will always be dps differences between jobs, and there will be some jobs that are much better than the others, but, a 1.5k rdps handicap should be from running 3 lower end jobs, not 1.

I said nothing about the overall state of balance, because I've said elsewhere plenty what I believe the direction they should take is..

[Dogempire]

I said nothing about the overall state of balance, because I've said elsewhere plenty what I believe the direction they should take is..

Yeah I kind of went off on a tangent there.

Regardless, my point was that the same level of effort yields different levels of results depending on what your class is as well as other factors you can't really control as easily.

Obviously you should always be trying your hardest when it comes to clearing content, but it's super discouraging that your 100% will yield much better results on a more overpowered job. There's nothing wrong with finding that fact discouraging or even a infuriating.

[whiskeybravo]

And by as well as they could, I mean that the 95th percentile red mage pulling 12.7k dps could be playing monk instead and pull a dps of 14,200 instead of a dps of 12.7k. That's a handicap of 1.5k on the group just because of job choice, and that handicap multiplies, scaling even higher with each lower end job that the group is running.

Unless.. (drumroll)

You already have a monk.

I would like to see the comparison between a 4 monk comp and a proper comp, though.

[Kabooa]

Unless.. (drumroll)

You already have a monk.

I would like to see the comparison between a 4 monk comp and a proper comp, though.

Very low Tank damage.

Obviously you should always be trying your hardest when it comes to clearing content, but it's super discouraging that your 100% will yield much better results on a more overpowered job. There's nothing wrong with finding that fact discouraging or even a infuriating.

Yeah.

That's fine.

Been there too.

[Dogempire]

Unless.. (drumroll)

You already have a monk.

I would like to see the comparison between a 4 monk comp and a proper comp, though.

I mean if you have a monk then you can switch to black mage or dragoon or really any of the upper half dps jobs.

[whiskeybravo]

I mean if you have a monk then you can switch to black mage or dragoon or really any of the upper half dps jobs.

Not really. Ideally you have 2 melee, a physical ranged and a caster so that you at least get the full party bonus. Telling your caster to be anything other than a caster, in this situation, is detrimental to the rest of the party by way of flat damage loss. Furthermore, unless you're such a hardcore elitist that relationships mean jack shit, if the caster you've run with 2 years decides to go RDM instead of SMN (because SMN has mostly been a dumpster fire this expac), who are you to force them to play BLM instead? What if it's not even leveled because they never liked the job to begin with? You're going to what, kick that person you've been raiding with for 2 years because they don't want to play as a chad BLM so you can bask in the glory of 1000 extra raid dps? Get real bruh. We did just fine with RDM, we absolutely smashed minimum damage requirements. If you can't do it with a RDM then you got bigger problems that have nothing to do with how RDM performs or it's contributions (about 800 dps in our physical heavy comp) to the raid group.

And a final point, RDM is never the catered-to job. It is usually always one of the caterers. For example, RDM doesn't get much benefit out of Brotherhood. They would get more out of Trick, but who's running Ninja these days, how many groups are feeding cards to their RDM? Nobody lol. Meanwhile the 3 top jobs you're referring to get fed in nearly every group. I don't mind comparing apples to oranges but at least recognize which is which.

[Akiudo]

And a final point, RDM is never the catered-to job. It is usually always one of the caterers. For example, RDM doesn't get much benefit out of Brotherhood. They would get more out of Trick, but who's running Ninja these days, how many groups are feeding cards to their RDM? Nobody lol. Meanwhile the 3 top jobs you're referring to get fed in nearly every group. I don't mind comparing apples to oranges but at least recognize which is which.

what exactly do you think this means ? i don't mean this in a mocking way, but it sounds like you try to say that part of the reason the high up jobs are high up is because they get buffs, they get cards, brotherhood, eye of the dragon or get to be the dance partner. Because if thats what you mean (and i don't know how to read it otherwise) than please be aware that fflogs changed their metrics. If you do 13k dps and than get buffed for 2k by a dancer and cards you will end up at 15k dps on the parser, however when uploading to fflogs the 2k you got buffed for will get deducted right away so you still get a 13k dps parse even if during the fight it showed you at 15k

[Myon88]

*Oops the person above beat me to it, but yeah 'catering' isn't as possible now that dps is ranked by raid dps and not personal dps. Any dps those jobs would gain from buffs is being given back to the jobs that cast those buffs instead now. Just wondering if you knew that, it's a common misconception since rdps rankings are a fairly new development.