Is there any game out there with a worse support team than final fantasy?

[SannaR]

you all act like its the poor mans fault but it isn't.
stuff can be done,it shouldn't be as you said and let the criminal stay with the money.
true SE might not do anything about it but that doesn't mean its ok or that he should just agree to it,its not fair.
with your kind of excuses why nothing should be done ,its like saying who cares what the criminal did its all the victims fault.
in truth you don't know what SE might or might not do as will i but i sure do know its not his fault his account was hacked it definitely doesn't mean that something like stealing should be considered ok cause the criminal used a hacked FC member account to commit it.

Yet it's the response people have been given time and again about people stealing from an FC in that if a rank other than the owner has the ability to promote or has access to the chest it's techincally said person's fault. Even if said person's account was hacked. The guy got his character rolled back, but they're not going to do anything about the chest because of how the ranks function. I want to say the devs were asked about this during a Q&A and also got the same response various GMs have given to players about FC theft. It's not like this is the first thread wishing/wanting something to be done about FC theft.

[Gora]

Hello.

I am the owner of the account that was hacked from OP's post. Since being rolled back (of which I lost items such as weekly books but the weekly clears remain intact, cheers SE), they have confirmed that they acknowledge illicit activity happened on my account during the day that I stated. Indeed, if I can see that my account was logged into from Austria about 40 minutes after my last login (2:42am,UK; 3:10am, Austria), then not only can they see this too, but they have the ability to deduce that it is physically impossible to be my own intent of this theft. I have yet to determine how my information was taken, as I don't usually click on links and only enter my password into the launcher (I don't even trust these potato forums really). However, my ISP reported suspicious activity between the hours of when I supposedly logged in from Austria (between 3:10am and 3:40am UK time). I can only assume this is one of their measures to bypass the account lock system when a foreign IP attempts to log in.

Anyway, since they have acknowledged that it was illicit, surely that implies that the theft of the FC chest gil was also illicit, and that by not doing anything about it they are just saying 'haha sucks lol' to an entire sub-community in the game (my FC). Access precautions are a strawman argument, because what if the FC leader had been the one hacked instead? What would be your argument then? The gil can be traced if they are willing to do it, and I suspect their main reasoning for not dealing with FC-related matters is simply because they are too fudging lazy.

[Dustytome]

Yeah, he got a roll back to the point before HIS money got stolen, but since we literally have evidence of the dummy account stealing the money (with their name and everything included), surely it would be an easy task to track the 88 million gil, remove it, and give it back to us, all they're doing is giving more funds for RMTers to earn cash with, if anything their lack of action actually incentivizes it.

The gil has likely since been distributed all over the place either being sold or spent. It can get messy fast. Quite frankly I'm surprised they do gil rollbacks at all because of that. How did the person get your fc member's login info? (didn't see Gora's response)

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Hello.

I am the owner of the account that was hacked from OP's post. Since being rolled back (of which I lost items such as weekly books but the weekly clears remain intact, cheers SE), they have confirmed that they acknowledge illicit activity happened on my account during the day that I stated. Indeed, if I can see that my account was logged into from Austria about 40 minutes after my last login (2:42am,UK; 3:10am, Austria), then not only can they see this too, but they have the ability to deduce that it is physically impossible to be my own intent of this theft. I have yet to determine how my information was taken, as I don't usually click on links and only enter my password into the launcher (I don't even trust these potato forums really). However, my ISP reported suspicious activity between the hours of when I supposedly logged in from Austria (between 3:10am and 3:40am UK time). I can only assume this is one of their measures to bypass the account lock system when a foreign IP attempts to log in.

Anyway, since they have acknowledged that it was illicit, surely that implies that the theft of the FC chest gil was also illicit, and that by not doing anything about it they are just saying 'haha sucks lol' to an entire sub-community in the game (my FC). Access precautions are a strawman argument, because what if the FC leader had been the one hacked instead? What would be your argument then? The gil can be traced if they are willing to do it, and I suspect their main reasoning for not dealing with FC-related matters is simply because they are too fudging lazy.

Because it would then be simple for people to make accounts, "steal" from their fc, report it, get the gil back, have it moved around to other fc chests and then recovered, doubling the gil over time. VPNs can show the account logging in from who knows where, "proving" it wasn't them.

[Solarra]

OP Sorry to hear about your troubles. I have no idea why you aren't getting help since it seems clear the theft occurred while your friend's character was being hacked. I'm not sure if posting here is going to help but it will at least highlight the issue for any FC leaders who may be unaware that unlike other games, 'promote' in FFXIV includes permission to promote to and above your own rank.

We really need a revamp of the FC 'hierarchy'. This has caused so many problems for FCs due to people not realising how it works and thinking their FC assets are safe.
Not every FC leader wants to be a dictator but sadly the only way to safeguard the gil, goods etc in your FC is for the leader to prevent other ranks accessing them. As soon as you start sharing power and giving permissions to lower ranks, you are at risk. I'd dearly love Square to make us a proper heirarchy but this issue has been going on for years (as a quick search of this forum will show) and nothing has ever been done.

Edit: Of course, even if the FC leader restricts permissions but then gets hacked themselves, there would be a similar situation to the one here. I would have assumed any money illicitly taken from the chest would be returned if it could be proven that the person taking it had been hacked. However, this incident makes me wonder if that is indeed the case. Some official word on that would help FC leaders decide where to keep their FC's gil.

[Misutoraru]

Because it would then be simple for people to make accounts, "steal" from their fc, report it, get the gil back, have it moved around to other fc chests and then recovered, doubling the gil over time. VPNs can show the account logging in from who knows where, "proving" it wasn't them.

this is exactly what I was talking about

it will be a It will just be a "rashomon"

how to tell which side is telling the truth?

even if there is a way, I doubt it will require assistance from external source. Not only the third party might not agree to provide assistance, it will also taken SE substantial amount of effort to just investigate 1 single case

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

OP Sorry to hear about your troubles. I have no idea why you aren't getting help since it seems clear the theft occurred while your friend's character was being hacked. I'm not sure if posting here is going to help but it will at least highlight the issue for any FC leaders who may be unaware that unlike other games, 'promote' in FFXIV includes permission to promote to and above your own rank.

We really need a revamp of the FC 'hierarchy'. This has caused so many problems for FCs due to people not realising how it works and thinking their FC assets are safe.
Not every FC leader wants to be a dictator but sadly the only way to safeguard the gil, goods etc in your FC is for the leader to prevent other ranks accessing them. As soon as you start sharing power and giving permissions to lower ranks, you are at risk.

I'd dearly love Square to change this and make us a proper heirarchy but this issue has been going on for years (as a quick search of this forum will show) and nothing has ever been done.

Or just make sure anyone with gil/rank privileges has a security token.

[Gora]

Because it would then be simple for people to make accounts, "steal" from their fc, report it, get the gil back, have it moved around to other fc chests and then recovered, doubling the gil over time. VPNs can show the account logging in from who knows where, "proving" it wasn't them.

But what is the difference? The rollback still means the gil stolen is in circulation, while being replenished on the character that was rolled back. It is no different from this, except that getting rolled back means you cant play for 1 or 2 days due to lost progress (and if gil making is your primary motive, you can still trade it prior to the rollback for further gains). So if they're willing to do this, why aren't they willing to offer help in regards to FC chest matters? It seems rather flawed to me, and, as I have already said, seems to be mostly because they are lazy and/or would rather devote their manpower to dealing with petty harrassments in-game.

Or just make sure anyone with gil/rank privileges has a security token.

Ah, I forgot to pre-empt this one too. While I personally did not have a security token, there are literally hundreds of stories on reddit and the like of people showing that their accounts had been breached despite having 2 step verification. I think there was one particular post from a guy showing how poor the 2 step verification from SE was, and how easily it could be bypassed with the right tech knowledge, though fvck if I can find where it was. On a reddit thread somewhere, I'm sure google can find it. There are, just like in this thread, SE white knights trying to play contrary in the defence of their glorious nippon developer, but they are usually the minority.

[Solarra]

Or just make sure anyone with gil/rank privileges has a security token.

Sound advice, I definitely agree the token is worth getting. However, I believe some of the people hacked via the fake Twitch accounts had the security token and still got hacked.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Sound advice, I definitely agree the token is worth getting. However, I believe some of the people hacked via the fake Twitch accounts had the security token and still got hacked.

One time password when entered into a field that isn't the login prompt is still valid when re-entered by the bot that captured it on the fake site.

Also, OTP uses an algorithm to determine the good passcodes. Assuming you got enough entries into the fake login from one account, you could break the algorithm and be able to log in whenever.