Lack of End Game Content

[HyoMinPark]

Which much harder content was this?

Since he made the snarky comment about the legacy mark, I'm guessing Rivenroad (Hard). That said, his complaints about lack of endgame content while ignoring current endgame opportunities kind of makes his argument fall flat in my eyes.

[Asiragan]

That said, his complaints about lack of endgame content while ignoring current endgame opportunities kind of makes his argument fall flat in my eyes.

Savage is a good time sink if you have a static (I can't stand pug honestly), but outside of that, I don't really see whatever there is to do for battle classes so could you elaborate about what kind of end game opportunities you're thinking?

Outside of the obvious mount/minion farm, of course.

There's ultimate for those who didn't do it of course, but having to go through this horrible lvl sync is a no go for me.

[HyoMinPark]

Savage is a good time sink if you have a static (I can't stand pug honestly), but outside of that, I don't really see whatever there is to do for battle classes so could you elaborate about what kind of end game opportunities you're thinking?

Outside of the obvious mount/minion farm, of course.

I already answered earlier in the thread what I do to pass the time. However, for other “endgame opportunities”, there is endgame crafting/gathering to do if one wishes to make money.

I don’t limit my activities to purely endgame content. Which is why I’m never bored. Anyone who comes into this game with limiting their activities to “level 80 content only” is going to run out of stuff to do really quickly.

There's ultimate for those who didn't do it of course, but having to go through this horrible lvl sync is a no go for me.

The level sync/item level sync is there to preserve the challenge of the content so that people can’t LOL FACEROLL it like old Savage content. It’s honestly not even that bad.

As someone who cleared the normal version of that fight, the 2nd coil version was harder.


1.0 content was only difficult because the servers were a total mess, and also only located in Japan.


Also, the fact that he says savage is scripted and that makes it easy is silly, considering his idea of endgame is open world mobs that are hp sponges with hi attack power. That's not fun or engaging, it's tedious and annoying.

Especially considering people would just make it a zerg anyway if there were rewards. Imagine current hunt farms but on normal mobs... Yeah no Thanks.

I don’t disagree with any of this.

[Asiragan]

I already answered earlier in the thread what I do to pass the time. However, for other “endgame opportunities”, there is endgame crafting/gathering to do if one wishes to make money.

I don’t limit my activities to purely endgame content. Which is why I’m never bored. Anyone who comes into this game with limiting their activities to “level 80 content only” is going to run out of stuff to do really quickly.

Which is why I was asking purely for battle class. I have yet to finish leveling my DoH/DoL so there's that, but outside of that there's really little to do if you don't like collecting stuff. Which is kinda sad, I think. But I think the reward system being the main culprit here. It's difficult to design content when you only have 4 relevant substats to give as a reward.

The item level sync is there to preserve the challenge of the content so that people can’t LOL FACEROLL it like old Savage content. It’s honestly not even that bad.

No, I was talking about how the lvl sync is handled. You have to go back to lvl 70 to do it, and lose all the skills you learned in the process. This is why I don't want to go into ultimate right now (And, to be true, I don't really care about it anyway. But that's still good content).

The item lvl could be at a minimum that I wouldn't really care, though.

[HyoMinPark]

Which is why I was asking purely for battle class. I have yet to finish leveling my DoH/DoL so there's that, but outside of that there's really little to do if you don't like collecting stuff. Which is kinda sad, I think. But I think the reward system being the main culprit here. It's difficult to design content when you only have 4 relevant substats to give as a reward.

Idk if it’ll work for you, but I tend to just do things with friends. Seems to keep me entertained even when I’m on a battle job at level cap. But this game is intentionally designed for players to not have to log in every day to try to keep up. Works very well for me when school is in session, as sometimes I cannot log in until the weekends. As I said, if people are looking for something like that—where they have something new to do at level cap every day outside of farming—then they will get bored very quickly.

I don’t really see an issue with the substat system other than the way it scales as endgame progresses. Critical Hit tends to come out on top while the others fall behind. There only being 4 is not that huge of a deal for me. I don’t miss the days of Accuracy melds.

No, I was talking about how the lvl sync is handled. You have to go back to lvl 70 to do it, and lose all the skills you learned in the process. This is why I don't want to go into ultimate right now (And, to be true, I don't really care about it anyway. But that's still good content).

The item lvl could be at a minimum that I wouldn't really care, though.

I edited my post to clarify on both. I was posting right as my queue had popped. Either way, they’re both there to preserve the challenge of the content. With your main class (SAM), it’s not as if you’d be losing too many skills that would suddenly make your rotation unbearable to do at 70. They did a much better job with keeping 70 rotations not dull compared to 50 rotations (which are fairly butchered) or 60 rotations (which sometimes have arbitrary limits like BRD’s 20% Repertoire lock instead of the normal 40%).

The only skills I would actively miss on DNC would be Saber Dance and Flourish. But my rotation is more or less the same at 80 compared to 70. Same with BRD—I’d lose Apex Arrow and the Army’s Muse trait. Which, the former isn’t exactly a game-breaking skill and the latter isn’t a game-breaking trait. The level sync doesn’t bother me.

As for item level, it is preserved at i345 and i375 for UCoB and UwU specifically. The minimum is 5 item levels below that, so it’s more or less minimum item level.

[Asiragan]

I don’t really see an issue with the substat system other than the way it scales as endgame progresses. Critical Hit tends to come out on top while the others fall behind. There only being 4 is not that huge of a deal for me. I don’t miss the days of Accuracy melds.

The problem with this substat system is that it's an hindrance to make other content rewarding enough to be relevant. I'm not even talking about accuracy (and IMO it's a good think that they removed it. Never understood how I could miss a boss the size of a building...).

Let's list all the substat there is actually : Determination, Critic, Direct hit, tenacity, piety, spellspeed, skillspeed. 7 substats in total; two of them are completly useless : Piety and Tenacity. Spellspeed and Skillspeed are to attain a certain cap and that only for some rare jobs. Determination is the go to if you can't have more of the two major substats : Critical and Direct hit.

In a way, there's only 3 relevants substats, but everyone goes for two of them. Out of seven. So, how do you make interesting rewards for new content with only that? Simple answer : You can't.

There's no proc on item, no other interesting secondary stats that make you want to commit to an other content than the usual savage/roulette. Which is why is already see the new Diadem to fell flat on release. Because there's simply no end goal to works towards to.

Idk if it’ll work for you, but I tend to just do things with friends. Seems to keep me entertained even when I’m on a battle job at level cap.

Did that too during Heavensward. Worked great until everyone burned out on Stormblood release. Now I barely see them anymore. The few that stayed just come to raid savage and leave as soon as it's done. They simply don't see why they should stay any longer after that. New players joined, new blood was good for the FC, but 6 years of the same music on repeat took it's toll, and I can't muster the motivation too bring them to yet another dog farming on old primals that I can't care about. Especially since mount farming is really something I dislike.

But this game is intentionally designed for players to not have to log in every day to try to keep up. Works very well for me when school is in session, as sometimes I cannot log in until the weekends. As I said, if people are looking for something like that—where they have something new to do at level cap every day outside of farming—then they will get bored very quickly.

Hence the post about the game having no end game I guess

I edited my post to clarify on both. I was posting right as my queue had popped. Either way, they’re both there to preserve the challenge of the content. With your main class (SAM), it’s not as if you’d be losing too many skills that would suddenly make your rotation unbearable to do at 70. They did a much better job with keeping 70 rotations not dull compared to 50 rotations (which are fairly butchered) or 60 rotations (which sometimes have arbitrary limits like BRD’s 20% Repertoire lock instead of the normal 40%).

The only skills I would actively miss on DNC would be Saber Dance and Flourish. But my rotation is more or less the same at 80 compared to 70. Same with BRD—I’d lose Apex Arrow and the Army’s Muse trait. Which, the former isn’t exactly a game-breaking skill and the latter isn’t a game-breaking trait. The level sync doesn’t bother me.

As for item level, it is preserved at i345 and i375 for UCoB and UwU specifically. The minimum is 5 item levels below that, so it’s more or less minimum item level.

I'm actually a DRG now, switched class at ShB release and forgot to change it on forum.

I get what your saying, but the fact that I'm missing skills or traits is something I really dislike about level sync in this game, and I could probably never go to Ultimate because of that. But on this point, it's just personal preference, really. Still I would really like it if level sync would allow to keep spells learned at higher level...

Good luck getting the community here to admit the game has a single fault though. To them, it's perfect and anyone who points out what they perceive as a shortcoming with the game, the fault is clearly with them and not the game design, because this game is unable to make a mistake anywhere. The game is immaculate and how dare you imply it might be lacking somewhere.

Honestly at this point I'm just posting to pass time rather than trying to convince anyone at all.

[galbsadi]

I'm not even talking about accuracy (and IMO it's a good think that they removed it. Never understood how I could miss a boss the size of a building...).

Note: I'm not saying this to defend accuracy being gone, I'm also glad it's no longer there.

To answer your question, though, at least from the perspective of other RPGs, the idea as I've understood it wasn't that you couldn't necessarily hit something the side of a building as much as you couldn't effectively do so...similar to how if you were the size of a bee it might be pretty ineffective to hit something the size of a human if you did not do so in the right spot.

In D&D, a 'miss' might not be that you didn't hit the dragon that's as tall as a skyscraper as much as that maybe your swing just bounced off its scales and did no damage, etc.

In that perspective, accuracy could almost be seen as your ability to not only hit the giant thing, but also do so in a spot that will actually cause damage.

[Forever_Learning]

This thread has evolved from "there isn't enough end-game content, please give me more" to "What things can we remove from others that will improve the situation for ME?"

Like this statement:

Everything stays the same, but lvl 80 players would get the option to do a dungeon scaled to lvl 80 and/or a separate roulette for it.

Just speaking from an efficiency point of view: for most of the MMORPGs I play you play their huge list of instanced content only once, and after that you're doing the same current endgame instances over and over, while every other instance outside of the endgame ones is instantly obsolete except to farm mounts/glamors/achievement titles etc.

For me that's almost an insulting level of inefficiency.

Yes, which is why they put in place the various roulettes to ensure that content continues to be used. You are arguing for the reverse of the current system: Sync up, rather than sync down.

That only benefits people at level 80, and no one below level 80.

Gradually adding skills as you level up is done on purpose to ensure people aren't overwhelemed, and so they have something to look forward to.

The entire levelling process is pretty much gutted if you get everything you've have at level 80 when you do Satasha, similar to someone getting a jump potion.

They'll be overwhelmed and it wont help them learn how to play better.

The current system ensures more experienced players can help out newer players, or people on alts, while still doing content from previous expansions.

Myself and two sprouts did Stone Vigil yesterday because my DRG is actually at that level, and when I qued, I was happy a more experienced tank was brought in as well.

The current system is designed to ensure people at all levels are doing content together from across the game's history rather than than the sliver of dungeons considered max level.

The result is that you actually end up experiencing a larger array of content, rather than just doing something once on the way to max level, while newer and veteran players are brought together regardless of their item level.

In Short, the current system is good for people at all levels, while your system would be good strictly for people at level 80 who dislike being synced down.

Savage is a good time sink if you have a static (I can't stand pug honestly), but outside of that, I don't really see whatever there is to do for battle classes so could you elaborate about what kind of end game opportunities you're thinking?

Outside of the obvious mount/minion farm, of course.

There's ultimate for those who didn't do it of course, but having to go through this horrible lvl sync is a no go for me.

I seriously feel for the developers.

The major problem with end-game contenat is that it becomes obsolete the minute it's no longer end-game. A level 80 dungeon stops being end-game the minute the level cap is raised.

As a result, many of the challenging experiences, stop being challenging, so obtaining related rewards is less impressive because the content is easy to complete.

Meanwhile, the people who achieved those things when it was challenging, feel their rewards are diminished as new people can now obtain the new things without any of the effort they did.

It's the exact problem that was discussed in the previous quote.

Thus, the brilliant solution to always keep Ultimate challenging, and make the rewards cosmetic, so they always remain relevant.

Dear People asking for more end-game content: this is the response to your request.

The sync is put in place to ensure it is a) always challenging, and b) the rewards will maintain their prestige.

The alternative would be making it like all other content that wouldn't even be worthy of discussion in this thread because the challenge would be removed and the associated prestige gone.

From a developer stand-point, would you rather make something like a deep dungeon, that can be used by people across levels, and will remain relevant after the expansion OR

2-3 additional savage raid bosses that will be considered outdated and irrelevant before the expansion is even over?

Ultimate also represents a solution to people eating content faster than it can be created. Because it remains challenging and prestigous, it stands as something that people can always do for a challenge.

So, let's be honest here. Many people hide behind the defense that they want more challenging content, but in truth, they want gear treadmills. They want to switch from grinding levels to grinding item levels.

The OP of this thread has already changed from complaints about end-game to complaints about the tome system, for example.

The game has plenty of challenging content, and the game has plenty of content, period.

The request for additional content that is strictly level 80, which only benefits level 80 players, only for the duration of the expansion, is a sliver of content so small that it isn't worth the investment.

FF14 should continue as it's done: create content for everyone that can be done, and remain challenging, regardless of the expansion.

The crux of the complaint is lack of content that directly increases your item level at level 80 , which I will applaud forever and view as a strength of this game.

If the gear you obtained at level 80 was your final gear, many of the people asking for more savage bosses wouldn't even bother doing savage in the first place.

[Temjiu]

That only benefits people at level 80, and no one below level 80.

+1. Not only that, but it also horribly alters the state and feeling of progression prior to 80. ESO has a system like that, and I hate it. Gear progression is a constant state of avoiding depreciation, instead of looking forward to gear upgrades. in a system where they scale up to max, all your stats and gear at lower levels is irrelevant unless they literally make you lose stats as you level out of the gear. Thus you can easily have LESS stats as you level up instead of more.

It's a horrid backwards system that I am VERY glad isn't in FFXIV. Please keep the scale-down system, it's one of the attractions to this game. The only thing I would love to see with the scale down system is a change to allow all unlocked skills accessible, even if you have to scale the potency instead. It does get irritating to jump into a scaled dungeon and suddenly lose all those skills you worked so hard to unlock, and being stuck with 1,2,1,2 for the remainder of the run.

..going back and forth isnt solving jack...they fix eureka and innovate endgame great..if not its simple stay unsubbed and move on...much easier to just change the channel rather than going to war against the cult in these forum....Long live casual cult fantasy 14 /cheers

I retracted my initial comment, it was quippy and undeserved. I agree, the conversation has gotten of topic. You're last cut at people who like "non-end game content" was unneeded though, it only puts you in the position of an elitist, something that the thread has far too much of already.